Does time exist in space?

Do you have any suggestions on research then, specific to the big bang? :)

As far as i am aware big bang theory is that there was nothing and then there was a singularity which turned in to everything in the universe and it continues to expand to this day from this singularity. I was under the impression that the big bang theory did not account for the growth of planets or solar systems or galaxies. It just says that they appeared out of no where relatively close to its current state.



technically you don't mean grow you mean shrink. vast clouds of gas and condense into stars which burn and through fusion make the heavier elements then die and explode and produce another cloud of heavier elements which again mixes and moves is drawn back together by gravity condense forms new stars and this time also planets in the Accretion disk from the matter of the old stars.

After all we're all made of star dust ^_^


It just says that they appeared out of no where relatively close to its current state.

that's pretty much the exact opposite of the big bang theory, that's intelligent design.
 
Time is just thermodynamics. Just bits of matter moving around. If the universe was empty, would there still be time?

there would still be time in the same way there's be distance and direction.

if there wasn't then it would literally be nothing and therefore not a universe

as for whatever is outside the universe, that's nothing too, otherwise it would still be the universe, to quote the song amazing horse "but the universe pretty much covers everything"


its like the mind bending question I've had recently, if we use an atomic clock to count seconds, is the clock counting how long a second is, or is the second that long because that's what the clock says it is? if so how do we know the clock is accurate without having a known length of second with which to calibrate it [ie knowing how much decay is required to yield 1 second]
 
that's pretty much the exact opposite of the big bang theory, that's intelligent design.

sounds more like creationism tbh. ID pretends that the universe needed guidance to get to where it is, not that it needed magic (if I understand correctly).
 
there would still be time in the same way there's be distance and direction.

if there wasn't then it would literally be nothing and therefore not a universe

as for whatever is outside the universe, that's nothing too, otherwise it would still be the universe, to quote the song amazing horse "but the universe pretty much covers everything"

How would you be able to tell the difference?
 
there would still be time in the same way there's be distance and direction.

if there wasn't then it would literally be nothing and therefore not a universe

as for whatever is outside the universe, that's nothing too, otherwise it would still be the universe, to quote the song amazing horse "but the universe pretty much covers everything"


its like the mind bending question I've had recently, if we use an atomic clock to count seconds, is the clock counting how long a second is, or is the second that long because that's what the clock says it is? if so how do we know the clock is accurate without having a known length of second with which to calibrate it [ie knowing how much decay is required to yield 1 second]

Concerning the expansion of the Universe, the truth is, nobody knows and I believe that nobody will EVER know...

This is due to several things:

- the Universe itself is the limit of everything that it contains; theory dictates that you just CANNOT jump outside of the Universe, as to do so, would be to expand the Universe to that point, therefore you will NEVER be able to jump outside of it to see. OR, you would simply be unable to leave the confines of the Universe, as the forces upon the particles of you/the probe would keep you firmly in the Universe.

- Electromagnetic spectrum (i.e. what we rely to discern the Universe around us) is contained within the Universe. The expansion of the Universe is faster than the speed of light, so even if we moved at the speed of light, we still wouldn't reach the edge of the Universe...

- (remember that the constant c = speed of light, is actually the theorised maximum speed of anything particulate or waveform in the Universe to our current understanding)

- ... even if we did reach the edge of the Universe, how can you see what does not exist or give off any radiation?


To bring this round to some sort of mind-screw-up point, it is entirely incorrect to think that the Universe is expanding INTO something, like a drop of Dye in a Pool of water, the correct way of thinking is that the Universe is a balloon that is inflating. What is beyond it, has no definition because void/nothing/vacuum typically means the absence of matter, however the Universe is force as well as matter, on top of the overriding fact that the Universe doesn't then occupy the 'void/nothing/vacuum' but it merely exists.

Tricky to explain!
 
Concerning the expansion of the Universe, the truth is, nobody knows and I believe that nobody will EVER know...

This is due to several things:

- the Universe itself is the limit of everything that it contains; theory dictates that you just CANNOT jump outside of the Universe, as to do so, would be to expand the Universe to that point, therefore you will NEVER be able to jump outside of it to see. OR, you would simply be unable to leave the confines of the Universe, as the forces upon the particles of you/the probe would keep you firmly in the Universe.

- Electromagnetic spectrum (i.e. what we rely to discern the Universe around us) is contained within the Universe. The expansion of the Universe is faster than the speed of light, so even if we moved at the speed of light, we still wouldn't reach the edge of the Universe...

- (remember that the constant c = speed of light, is actually the theorised maximum speed of anything particulate or waveform in the Universe to our current understanding)

- ... even if we did reach the edge of the Universe, how can you see what does not exist or give off any radiation?


To bring this round to some sort of mind-screw-up point, it is entirely incorrect to think that the Universe is expanding INTO something, like a drop of Dye in a Pool of water, the correct way of thinking is that the Universe is a balloon that is inflating. What is beyond it, has no definition because void/nothing/vacuum typically means the absence of matter, however the Universe is force as well as matter, on top of the overriding fact that the Universe doesn't then occupy the 'void/nothing/vacuum' but it merely exists.

Tricky to explain!

The universe is made of fields.

qzn4uv.jpg


Force is just a quaint classical idea from Star Wars.
 
How would you be able to tell the difference?

as a general rule of thumb, if your there your still in the universe, as mr redvgreen explained quite well.

Concerning the expansion of the Universe, the truth is, nobody knows and I believe that nobody will EVER know...
Tricky to explain!

read a book once, can't remember the name, but it explained a few things rather well about the big bang and how we can't see the universe, also how we can judge it's age.

something along the lines of we can only see in a sphere thats equal in lightyears to the age of the universe[because obv the light has to get here] anything further away we can't see yet because the light isn't here yet.

it explains why the night sky is black because if the universe was infinately old and infinately vast there would be light from old dead stars everywhere.

for the same reason, and as you said yourself we can't see the edge of the universe and quite possibly never will, or if we ever do i doubt we'd still be walking on 2 legs and calling ourselves the human race any more.
 
Truth is there are so many competing theories that non of them, when taken together make any sense:
the Universe itself is the limit of everything that it contains; theory dictates that you just CANNOT jump outside of the Universe, as to do so, would be to expand the Universe to that point, therefore you will NEVER be able to jump outside of it to see. OR, you would simply be unable to leave the confines of the Universe, as the forces upon the particles of you/the probe would keep you firmly in the Universe.
What about the theory that says this universe is but one evolved out of a much larger one? This being the case, it might one day be possible to jump from this to another?
 
It’s not a misuse of the term if it means he has amazing navigation skills and did the Kessel Run in a little as 12 parsecs (distance). I think the reference has he took a risky route via some blackholes.

There's another retcon that's also possible and possibly rather stranger.

There's a spatial effect that follows from time dilation and different frames of reference - Lorentz contraction.

The classic example of this is muons, but it's universal. I'll go with muons because it's a commonly used experimental proof. I may be wrong. I'm certainly simplifying a lot (not least because I don't understand the details :) )

So...muons. They're created in the upper atmosphere by the interaction of solar radiation and Earth's atmosphere. They're bogglingly unstable and exist for such an infinitesimal amount of time that even at almost light speed they cannot exist long enough to reach the surface of the Earth. But they do. We have muon detectors on Earth and they register the muons that reach Earth that can't exist for long enough to reach Earth.

That is explained by time dilation - from Earth's frame of reference, the muons extremely high relative velocity means that they move through time at a different rate and thus have enough time to reach Earth. All well and good...but from the muons' frame of reference they are not moving relative to themselves so time passes at a normal rate for them so they don't have enough time to reach Earth. But they do reach Earth, therefore Earth must be close enough for them to reach it. From their frame of reference, the distance from the upper atmosphere to the surface of Earth is hugely shortened - Lorentz contraction. If I recall correctly, from their reference frame the atmosphere of the Earth is about 10 metres thick.

So if the Millenium Falcon was going really quickly on the Kessel run, quickly enough for relativistic effects to be significant, then from the frame of reference of the Millenium Falcon the length of the Kessel run would be shortened and thus stating how much it was shortened would be a valid boast about the speed of the ship.

It's a retcon, but it's a realistic one.

It's all very bizarre, but it's repeatedly confirmed by experiment. If you want some head bending, there is an explanation of it that leads you through relativity from basic principles. Even more bizarrely, nearly all of it is really easy to follow. There's hardly any advanced maths involved and it's all so logical that it's plain and obvious right up to and including the most wildly bizarre conclusions.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-mc2-Brian-Cox/dp/0306819112

It's like looking at a map and seeing that going forward 8 miles, turning left and going 6 miles and then turning back towards your starting point and going 10 miles brings you back to your starting point...and that it's equally logical and obvious that this turns your car into a purple dragon with green stripes that breathes mars bars.

EDIT: I've just remembered a good video about a paradox that arises from this. It's from a series called Sixty Symbols, which contains a lot of very good videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGsbBw1I0Rg
 
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Do you have any suggestions on research then, specific to the big bang? :)

As far as i am aware big bang theory is that there was nothing and then there was a singularity which turned in to everything in the universe and it continues to expand to this day from this singularity. I was under the impression that the big bang theory did not account for the growth of planets or solar systems or galaxies. It just says that they appeared out of no where relatively close to its current state.

You have to remember that the Big Bang theory is the best we have at the moment and until a theory comes about that proves it it wrong here it stays.

Solar systems and galaxies don't just come out of no where, they take time to develop, dust and gas come together those elements has been there since the big bang.
 
as a general rule of thumb, if your there your still in the universe, as mr redvgreen explained quite well.

Let's pretend you're dead. Does the universe continue to exist without you? I'm guessing you'll probably answer "yes".

So now let's pretend that we're capable of thinking abstractly about concepts without needing to place our physical selves present within them, such as an empty universe. How can you be so sure that time is a fundamental part of the fabric of the universe existing independently of matter when the only clue as to the nature of time physicists have is the second law of thermodynamics (thermodynamics involves movement of matter)? Or to take the argument in the opposite direction, how can you even be sure that time isn't manifest of the universe itself but exists outside of it?
 
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