Dolby True HD + Amp with no HDMI input

Nitefly

Nitefly

Nitefly

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Hey there!

I’m in the market for a new audio hifi set up and have my sights on an Audiolab 9000A plus some PMC Prodigy 1 or 5 speakers.

The once annoyance with that setup is that the amp has no HDMI input. Booo!

I’m trying to figure out how I could get access to Dolby True HD if I wanted to… from what I gather, this won’t work with an optical input.

One potential solution is to buy a streamer with an HDMI input (e.g. Bluesound NODE) and then output back to the amp with a coaxial cable + a sub with the sub-out. Would this work?

… or am I just wasting my time and should stick with an optical amp input, for the sake of a 2.1 setup?

Thoughts? Thanks :)
 
I always thought the only way to get truehd was via hdmi anyway? If you want dolby true HD, then surely you'd want the surrounds too? The biggest difference between regular dts and true hd / dts.hd.ma was the extra volume in the surround speakers imo.it wasn't worth the extra disc space that hd audio took.
 
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You need a AVR or AV pre amplifier, then send L/R pre out from that into your Audiolab ideally into the HT bypass input

Then buy center, subwoofer, surrounds, atmos height, another subwoofer, thousands more subwoofers etc. Either the AVR has the amps for it, or use external amplification with av pre amp
 
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Lethagized said:
I always thought the only way to get truehd was via hdmi anyway? If you want dolby true HD, then surely you'd want the surrounds too? The biggest difference between regular dts and true hd / dts.hd.ma was the extra volume in the surround speakers imo.it wasn't worth the extra disc space that hd audio took.
Click to expand...

It's possible if using a BD player with onboard decoder, use 5.1/7.1 RCA output into a AVR's 5.1/7.1 analogue input.

If OP doesn't have AVR then I guess could have a HD audio downmix to stereo? Using L/R outputs from BD player or the L/R outputs from the 5.1 RCA outputs, setting the suitable setting in the BD player to L/R right only.
 
Right your amp has HT bypass.

Amplifiers with HT-bypass - update 27. October 2024

Audiophile.no has made a list of stereo preamps and integrated amps that have one sort of HT-bypass. This list is updated 27. October 2024 with preamplifiers from Teac, and will be will be continuously updated. Written by Karl Erik Sylthe, at 15.02.07 Translated to English in june 2008Latest...
www.audiophile.no www.audiophile.no

So best solution would be to buy a AVR, making sure it has a full set of pre outs. Whether you are ok with a 1080p AVR (if you have 1080p screen and no intention of changing it) so save money on a older 1080p, or buy a new AVR with 4K HDR support etc.

L/R pre outs from that AVR into your Audiolab. Buy a center, surrounds, rears, heights, sub or subs as needed wiring that into the AVR, run AVR auto setup, making sure Audiolab is in HT bypass mode. Set crossovers for your speakers. Manually check levels and adjust if needed.
 
Nitefly said:
Hey there!

I’m in the market for a new audio hifi set up and have my sights on an Audiolab 9000A plus some PMC Prodigy 1 or 5 speakers.

The once annoyance with that setup is that the amp has no HDMI input. Booo!

I’m trying to figure out how I could get access to Dolby True HD if I wanted to… from what I gather, this won’t work with an optical input.

One potential solution is to buy a streamer with an HDMI input (e.g. Bluesound NODE) and then output back to the amp with a coaxial cable + a sub with the sub-out. Would this work?

… or am I just wasting my time and should stick with an optical amp input, for the sake of a 2.1 setup?

Thoughts? Thanks :)
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why do you want access to Dolby True HD (a surround sound format) when you have your eye on a Hi-Fi stereo amp? What are you hoping to achieve? What content do you think is out there that is stereo but encoded as DDTHD?
 
Thanks for the replies all.

Good questions + comments re: the lack of supporting speakers. My intention here was to run a simple 2.1 set-up, without the surround speakers. Since I would be able to run the highest quality stereo output music through the amp, I was curious to see whether I could run the highest quality sound to support my TV in a AV setup.

My penultimate Q was whether this would be a waste of time considering the limitations of the setup and whether I would be better off just sticking with the optical output from a Blu-ray player.

lucid said:
Maybe I'm missing something here, but why do you want access to Dolby True HD (a surround sound format) when you have your eye on a Hi-Fi stereo amp? What are you hoping to achieve? What content do you think is out there that is stereo but encoded as DDTHD?
Click to expand...

I think… all of it? Or rather, you can still funnel a 5.1 capable audio track through a 2.1 system by setting up your blue ray playing accordingly, etc.

As far as I know, DDTHD signifies the quality of the lossless signal. It can be compatible with stereo outputs as, although there isn’t the channel separation, the bitrate is maintained - for example see here:

Dolby TrueHD vs Dolby Atmos: Understanding the Differences - HomeTheaterReview

Unravel the mystery of Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Atmos. Discover their differences and how they can enhance your home theater experience.
hometheaterreview.com hometheaterreview.com
 
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It'll just be downmixed. Also means asking the speakers to play full range, unless you are high passing your speakers/sub, like you do in a AVR with bass management. Would be straining the amp and speakers a lot more, compared to bass managed system.


Even my mains which go down to 32hz, would struggle with full range movie content, THD will be higher, damage to speakers, and I'm running with 300W amplifiers.

Nothing wrong with a 2.1 system, and I'd rather have a good 2.1 system over a cheap 7.1 system system, but given a choice of my good 9.2.4 system, playing a movie in this layout, or using "stereo" mode, I'd choose the multi channel option.

I'd just add the bits to your existing system to go to suitable multi channel. Minimum 4.1, maxmium depending on budget/room size/how many speakers you want.
 
You'll want a AVR at least something like this, if need modern AVR with 4K, HDMI 2.1 etc, pre outs are a must

www.denon.com

AVC-X3700H

AVC-X3700H
www.denon.com www.denon.com

You won't connect the L/R speaker outputs, as your Audiolab will power them. AVR's with pre outs is more of a upper-midrange AVR, the budget models won't have them.

One possible option could be slimline Marantz AVR, I think they have L/R pre out, so you could the Marantz amps for the center, surround, and send L/R pre out to the Audiolab
 
If using optical you'll just get DD/DTS core. so same audio as what is on DVD.

Not getting full advantage of your source, and speakers. I can notice in SQ between DD and HD audio. DTS core high bitrate (1.4mb) sounds good
 
Nitefly said:
I think… all of it? Or rather, you can still funnel a 5.1 capable audio track through a 2.1 system by setting up your blue ray playing accordingly, etc.
Nitefly said:
As far as I know, DDTHD signifies the quality of the lossless signal. It can be compatible with stereo outputs as, although there isn’t the channel separation, the bitrate is maintained - for example see here:
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Thanks, but I know my way around the various audio formats pretty well. I was wondering more about whether you did.


DDTHD (and DTS-HD MA) exists to give us the equivalent of multiple channels of 20Hz~20kHz PCM (plus LFE) but in a bitstream format that an external multichannel receiver decodes. The signal could also be transported as 5/6/7 channel analogue audio. Analogue doesn't have any bitrate limitation in the way that PCM does according to how it's transported.

The Audiolab doesn't do DD/DTS, so you're looking at needing either a PCM stereo signal or a stereo analogue signal into the amp. The 9000A will then output as 2.1, but it won't do any signal conversion. It's just stereo with the addition of a sub channel out of the stereo 20-20kHz signal.

The crux of your problem is getting a stereo signal out of a Blu-ray player where there's only a HDMI out. To me, the answer then is simple. Change the Blu-ray player. You need something with an analogue stereo or optical/coaxial output.

Where you don't need 4K disc playback, pick up a used Panasonic BDT300 / BDT500 / BDT700. These are decent for analogue audio playback and include a full set of analogue audio outs (configurable to 7.1 or 2ch + 5.1) plus optical and coaxial as well as dual HDMI outs (one AV, one audio only).

If you need 4K disc compatibility, then the player to have is the Panasonic DP-UB820. This is the first model up in the range with full analogue outs as well as optical/coaxial. I just picked up one to be a service spare on a deal from Hughes. £349 - 20% off voucher code that popped up.
 
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@lucid again thanks for the info.

What I’m ultimately after is getting lossless audio in the 2.1 setup. If I go the optical cable route, this won’t work as the optical cable won’t support this bitrate (as far as I can tell).

I think I would need this…

A Blu-ray player with HDMI out to the TV and a second HDMI audio output (carrying the lossless signal). The Blu-ray player would be

The second HDMI would go to a receiver, which has a coaxial out. The coaxial out would go to the amp.

Then on the blue ray player I’d select the audio as stereo.

The HDMI should then carry the stereo lossless DolbyTHD signal to the receiver, which in turn carries it to the amp.

Would that not work….? Or, would it be pointless? Or…?

@hornetstinger it would be for 4k but as per my example above I think I’d have a seperate HDMI to the TV.
 
Just buy a AVR and add it to your system. Saves the hassle, you're trying to bodge it, who know if it'll work. You'll also lose the LFE subwoofer track. if this is for movies, then multi channel will be better than 2.1 You'll also get room EQ for the L/R speakers, and sub (in AV mode) plus for the other speakers also.

Then get time alignment, and most important, bass management. You won't be driving your speakers or amp as hard, as that low bass is re-directed to the subwoofer, and the speakers will receive >80hz.

2.1 is workable, whether it's VHS, DVD, BD, downmixed to 2.1 but nothing will beat AV system.

You'll still use the Audiolab, just that all stereo sources go into the Audiolab, and all AV sources go into the AVR. The AVR will be master volume in AV mode, and in stereo mode, the AVR is off, and the Audio is L/R master volume. The only thing though is you connect the subwoofer to the AVR, not the Audiolab
 
Nitefly said:
@lucid again thanks for the info.

What I’m ultimately after is getting lossless audio in the 2.1 setup. If I go the optical cable route, this won’t work as the optical cable won’t support this bitrate (as far as I can tell).

I think I would need this…

A Blu-ray player with HDMI out to the TV and a second HDMI audio output (carrying the lossless signal). The Blu-ray player would be

The second HDMI would go to a receiver, which has a coaxial out. The coaxial out would go to the amp.

Then on the blue ray player I’d select the audio as stereo.

The HDMI should then carry the stereo lossless DolbyTHD signal to the receiver, which in turn carries it to the amp.

Would that not work….? Or, would it be pointless? Or…?

@hornetstinger it would be for 4k but as per my example above I think I’d have a seperate HDMI to the TV.
Click to expand...

I think you're making this overly complicated. An analogue audio connection is all you need.

Let a player deal with converting DDTHD / DTS-HD MA / MLP / DSD / FLAC / WAV / ALAC / AAC / PCM etc

A UB820 will deal with digital audio up to 384kHz 32-bit, then give you the analogue audio equivalent of that for your 9000A. Do you need any more "hi res" than that? The only thing that's missing is SACD playback. If that's important, get an SACD player as well. Hook that up with some analogue audio interconnects too.

No external processors required.
No Toslink or coaxial required
No AV receivers required.

For audio:
One player (unless you also want SACD)
One amp
One pair of speakers
One sub
+ some analogue audio interconnects and speaker leads

For video:
One HDMI cable - does DVD, Blu-ray, 4K plus media file playback too.


If your plan is to migrate from the 2.1 you're planning right now to a 5.1 or larger surround system, then why waste the cash buying a stereo amp? Dump the cash into an ARCAM AV receiver and have done with it. But that's not what you said you wanted. You said 2.1, and this is it.

Everything else in this thread is going around the houses to get to the destination. For the "I want HD audio" side of things, buy a UB820. Let the player do all the conversion. Analogue audio out into the Audiolab. Bish bash bosh. Job done.
 
That's the good thing with seperates he has a few options, some better than others. And even more options, for higher end choice.Id he had a soundbar (or active speakers with out of date input connection) he'd have to throw away then whole lot.

Use his TV as audio hub and make do with DD/DTS core.
Use with downmixed audio from a bd player like Panasonic 830/9000 etc
Buy a AVR to replace his audiolab
Buy a AVR to add to his audiola
Buy a AV pre amp to replace his audiolab
Buy a AV pre amp to add to his audiolab
Speakers as needed, monoblocs, stereo, or multi channel power amplifiers as/if needed.
 
Just thought I’d chirp in here and add that the audio lab won’t process any surround formats such as Dolby digital DTS, Atmos etc, just 2 channel pcm.

The question then becomes, does what ever optical source you plug it in to support “overclocked” high res’ 2 channel downmixing. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen an option to tell any kind of player (or tv) what sample rate to output, but happy to be proven wrong. (Have however seen it in the pc sound options)

Edit: Sony x800m2 that will let you output 96/192 24bit pcm down the coaxial, so they do exist.

That then would be how I would go.

You could also test out just running an optical from the telly, and see if you can tell the difference between 96/192 and 48, if it’s minimal, then the convenience might be better just plugging the tv straight into the amp.

It might also be worth considering your use case as well - for a long time I was very 2 channel only. But eventually came to the realisation that I spent much more time watching tv/movies/games than listening to music and I should switch my focus there instead. A good surround system can still play music!

Another consideration should be room calibration - a good modern implementation (eg Dirac) makes an amazing difference. The NAD M10v2 could be worth a listen (also has HDMI eArc so time sync and can be controlled by the tv remote).
 
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