Dragons' Den

I have watched the show since the beginning of the first series, and I'm quite frankly flabbergasted that so many of you think of it as the best thing since sliced bread. The concept is great, but the execution is downright miserable.

The whole "dragons" concept is horribly overdone, to begin with. Get Bill Gates, Sir Richard Branson and James Dyson on the show and I'll be impressed. I had never heard of any of the "dragons" prior to the show. Their sheer arrogance — be it an act to fit in line with the theme of the show or not — coupled with the number of contestants who have nervous breakdowns once they get in the room with them is just plain stupid. They constantly tout their "knowledge" as a selling point when offering investments, but what do they really have to contribute to people's businesses? It sounds to me like they're harbouring the sort of "quick tips" one could pick up with a five minute search on the Internet!

Don't even get me started on the contestants. Are the people featured on the show genuinely a representative sample of the entrepreneurs out there in modern society? I sure hope not. Do people really go looking for VC investment without even figuring out basic information (The kardocktor people last night who hadn't even calculated projected first year revenue, then the financial adviser claimed they were expecting £10 from each call?), constructing working prototypes (The electronic egg boiling machine which was actually a brilliant idea) etc.? It's so obvious — even without watching a single episode of the show beforehand — what the "dragons" are going to want to know. It's the same questions over and over again, and yet no one seems to get it right.

And the presenter — Evan Davis. Not only does the sound of his voice make me want to break things, he just has to spoil all the surprises and provide totally unnecessary commentary on events (rather like Sheriff John Burnell on "World's Wildest Police Chases"). Do we need him to provide a running commentary of the already painfully simplistic events which are unfolding? Example:

Duncan Bannatyne: I'm sorry, but quite frankly I think you're product is a load of rubbish. I'm out, I'm afraid
Evan Davis: Duncan Bannatyne has just dropped out of the running. Will Peter Jones, the only remaining dragon, put in an offer?

Gah, drives me up the wall. And yet I keep coming back to it. I have no idea why :(
 
hey sequoia...

the one thing about your post that really sticks out to me and that is quite frankly pivotal to everything is experience... you cannot beat it... no matter what walk of life it is invaluable... no degree, no schooling, no amount of reading will give you a taste of what to expect and what is to come..

so i say to myself... how do i and other potential entrepeneurs get this experience...

i would hazard a guess and say you didnt get your experience by simply deciding one day to start a business and throw yourself into the deep end... no doubt you had some kind of experience of whatever it was through a proxy (maybe working at a similar business before hand, perhaps your father showed you the ropes) before you took the plunge... or am i wrong? do cases of people jumping into the deep end exist? how successful are they? my gutt feeling is most of them would washout relatively quickly

entrepeneur is a very vague term... to me it is someone who manages resources and people and runs a successful business... to me an entrepeneur is someone who can move into different businesses and make it work... he might not, at present, know anything about the double glazing business, or the ins and outs of a mcdonalds franchise, but is he capable of taking on that challenge and making a success of it...

i reguarly look through business classifieds such as daltons weekly and am always interested and curious about many of the different types of businesses for sale, but alas, the eternal question of 'well, which is the most appropriate? which one should i pursue to gain the experience?' continues to plague me...

i am torn between pursuing one which i have considered to have good prospects and then go out into the field to get experience (by working in a business like it) or gravitating towards what i might be 'good at' ... i would like your views on the matter if you would oblige..

cheers again
 
Rosbif said:
entrepeneur is a very vague term... to me it is someone who manages resources and people and runs a successful business... to me an entrepeneur is someone who can move into different businesses and make it work... he might not, at present, know anything about the double glazing business, or the ins and outs of a mcdonalds franchise, but is he capable of taking on that challenge and making a success of it...
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Wikipedia said:
An entrepreneur (a loanword from French) is a person who undertakes and operates a new enterprise or venture, and assumes some accountability for the inherent risks.

Most commonly, the term entrepreneur applies to someone who establishes a new entity to offer a new or existing product or service into a new or existing market, whether for a profit or not-for-profit outcome (see entredonneur).
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The term "entrepreneur" — at least to me — is used to describe someone who innovates and comes up with new ideas and products, not someone who takes on existing businesses and makes them successful. :)
 
kitten_caboodle said:
someone from OCUK is on it this year I think?
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Yup its me!! but not this series, im in the under 19 event for MK the Pitch! mini dragons den! however i go forward to the main event hopefully this winter! :D

Do i have to still say something like "OMGWTFBBQ?!" or wear some OCUK merchandise? promoting them! might try list my overclocks on a sheet and then make stickers of them and funny saying and stick them all over a briefcase or folder!

much more news to give you guys! i got a mentor who works for the department of trade and industry for business enginering :)

Also i just won "Best Entrepenurial spirit award" and "high Flyer award" too!


I am the one on the far right! Take note of the TWO awards !! i couldnt hold my thrid one for obvious reasons! ;) and yes im the oldest one on the course... everyone else is slightly younger than me!
meoz7.jpg
~

More to come soon guys!!" including videos and pictures!! early next week i get a whole dvd full!
 
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Al Vallario said:
The term "entrepreneur" — at least to me — is used to describe someone who innovates and comes up with new ideas and products, not someone who takes on existing businesses and makes them successful. :)
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Entrepreneur - An individual who organises, operates and assumes the risk for a business venture.

the meaning of the french word = "to undertake" - "one who undertakes an enterprise; one who owns manages a business; a person who the risk of profit and loss within this."

hope that clears up the muddle your in ! :)
 
Rosbif said:
hey sequoia...

the one thing about your post that really sticks out to me and that is quite frankly pivotal to everything is experience... you cannot beat it... no matter what walk of life it is invaluable... no degree, no schooling, no amount of reading will give you a taste of what to expect and what is to come..

so i say to myself... how do i and other potential entrepeneurs get this experience...

i would hazard a guess and say you didnt get your experience by simply deciding one day to start a business and throw yourself into the deep end... no doubt you had some kind of experience of whatever it was through a proxy (maybe working at a similar business before hand, perhaps your father showed you the ropes) before you took the plunge... or am i wrong? do cases of people jumping into the deep end exist? how successful are they? my gutt feeling is most of them would washout relatively quickly

entrepeneur is a very vague term... to me it is someone who manages resources and people and runs a successful business... to me an entrepeneur is someone who can move into different businesses and make it work... he might not, at present, know anything about the double glazing business, or the ins and outs of a mcdonalds franchise, but is he capable of taking on that challenge and making a success of it...

i reguarly look through business classifieds such as daltons weekly and am always interested and curious about many of the different types of businesses for sale, but alas, the eternal question of 'well, which is the most appropriate? which one should i pursue to gain the experience?' continues to plague me...

i am torn between pursuing one which i have considered to have good prospects and then go out into the field to get experience (by working in a business like it) or gravitating towards what i might be 'good at' ... i would like your views on the matter if you would oblige..

cheers again
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To deal with "entrepreneur" first, whether it's technically correct or not, my usage of the term corresponds pretty closely to Al Vallario's description - it's someone who sees opportunities and market openings, and takes advantage of them, not just someone who "manages" an existing business, even if that management is competent. A manager and an entrepreneur are different kinds of animal. Many managers are safe, logical and conservative (small c) people, where as entrepreneurs are (in my definition) risk-takers. Of course, being a manager doesn't mean you can't be an entrepreneur, but if you are naturally the latter, you'll probably be finding the safety and stability of the job boring, or even frustrating.

Note - I'm not saying that one type of personality is better or worse than the other, but I am saying I think they are two different types of personality. Maybe a natural 'manager' can force himself (or herself) to be an entrepreneur, but I rather suspect the good ones are born, not made.

And nor are entrepreneurs necessarily either good at it or nice people. We don't hear about those with the personality that don't make it, and I doubt that the successful ones are even so much as the 10% that the visible bit of an iceberg represents. But those that don't succeed just sink into obscurity.

There's also those that want to be entrepreneurs, but don't have what it takes. And that, in my view, is not only a risk-taking, driven, somewhat obsessive personality and the skills and acumen to get things right far more often than they get them wrong, but also a healthy portion of good luck. Also, most entrepreneurs are pretty good judges of people. They have to be, because it helps no end in business to get a feel for the other party, to be able to read their body language, to get a sense of when someone is trying to stick it to you because, without ANY doubt at all, you won't be long in business before someone tries it.

Entrepreneurs also have the tenacity to get back up when they're knocked down, and then get back up again. And again.

You're right, Rosbif .... experience is very important, and in my view there is only ONEway to get it, and it's the blindingly obvious one. Degrees and educationdon't make entrepreneurs .... but nor are they a bar to it. There are no doubt some markets where being an educated technical specialist is either a huge advantage, or mandatory. I wonder how far any non-specialist would get in genetic engineering, for instance?

The obvious example of an entrepreneur that didn't need a degree is Bill Gates. But, I have no doubt he could have gained significant academic standing, had he decided that was the way to go. He didn't.

But, to be honest, people like Richard Branson and Alan Sugar don't strike me as the academic type. That's not where their natural proclivities lie. Of course, most entrepreneurs don't achieve business success on anything like the scale Gates, Branson and Sugar have. But if you've spotted an opportunity, started a business and turned it into something several orders of magnitude larger than could have been expected, you are probably an entrepreneur. But even then, there's a caveat. In my view, one of the things that typifies entrepreneurs is that you'll often see them move from one thing to another, to another. They aren't generally the type to start something and then stick with it to the exclusion of all else, as a career. This again comes back to personality type. Once it's up and running, and stable and successful, the true entrepreneur is likely to be looking for the nerxt challenge, because that challenge is what it's all about. You could even suggest that the true entrepreneur has a bit of an inferiority complex, because they're generally driven to achieve to prove themselves, even if they are only proving themselves to themselves.

I think education is a red herring when it comes to entrepreneurship. Having formal academic qualifications won't make you an entrepreneur, but it doesn't preclude it either. It's really an irrelevance.

It's tempting to describe myself as an entrepreneur, but if I'm honest, it isn't entirely accurate. I've certainly started businesses and been successful in them, but I had the benefit of having had great good fortune in my choice of where to live, who to work for and when to do it, so I had a certain amount of capital behind me before I started any of my businesses, and that made it MUCH easier to be successful. Without that good luck, and the financial backing it gave me, it's hard to predict what my life would have been like. I doubt, for instance, that I could have done it the way Branson and Sugar did.

Rosbif, you say you're torn between which 'approach' to take. I honestly don't feel I can advise you on that, for the simple reason that I don't know you, or what you're like. Bear in mind what I said earlier, though - not all entrepreneurs succeed! Some fail, sometimes spectacularly. It's a bit like writing a book. A LOT of people say they want to, many actually have a go, a small percentage complete it, a small percentage of those ever actually get it published, and a miniscule number become successful multi-book authors. But that miniscule percentage includes some very unlikely candidates. Who could have guessed how Harry Potter would go?

As an entrepreneur, are you the type that'll talk about it, or do you have a Harry Potter inside you?

I suspect, if you're the latter, then when the time is right, you'll do it regardless of what I say. And I hope if you do, it proves to be a wild success.
 
da_mic_1530 said:
booner please keep us updated, i find it very intresting and im looking foward to seeing what it is you are actually thinking of making/producing etc
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will do mate, its all bit secret right now, but hey your all gonna see it one day i hope! :p
 
sequoia,

ah ha... now i understand your point of view completely! your post illuminates it all! our interpretations of what is an entrepreneur are different..

i most definitely see myself falling into the category of manager as opposed to entrepreneur, most definitely.. i know that i am not the innovator or the one to see an opening in a market and put together a startup.. there is no point deluding myself in this matter.. we should play to what our strengths are.. (well, in my view) ..

i see myself as being the leader and shouldering the responsibility of a business that is already established.. with the view of expanding if and where possible.. i suppose i am the man who buys the business from the entrepeneur once it is stable and successful.. which is quite a world away from having an idea and building something from scratch!

now perhaps you can see why my view of risk is quite different to yours.. :D

i really do appreciate your posts.. it really is fascinating to have such a diverse group of people on this forum, it really is very helpful and insightful... thanks for the contributions im sure a lot of people have read these last few posts with great interest and hopefully walked away with something like i have.. :)
 
Congratulations Booner on winning those awards, good luck with the future of your project and I hope to see you on the Dragon's Den soon. :)

If you do get on, will it be for the current series or for the next one to be shown next year?
 
i think its probally the next series! regardless, i am still going to pitch to multiple sources of finance such as business angels, investors and bank managers of which i should come away with enough funding to create my dream! :)
 
Rosbif said:
sequoia,

ah ha... now i understand your point of view completely! your post illuminates it all! our interpretations of what is an entrepreneur are different..

i most definitely see myself falling into the category of manager as opposed to entrepreneur, most definitely.. i know that i am not the innovator or the one to see an opening in a market and put together a startup.. there is no point deluding myself in this matter.. we should play to what our strengths are.. (well, in my view) ..

i see myself as being the leader and shouldering the responsibility of a business that is already established.. with the view of expanding if and where possible.. i suppose i am the man who buys the business from the entrepeneur once it is stable and successful.. which is quite a world away from having an idea and building something from scratch!

now perhaps you can see why my view of risk is quite different to yours.. :D
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I can indeed see the difference.

One more perspective to consider, then.

A really potent business combination is to put a visionary entrepreneur and a top-flight manager together. If you can match a pair of rather conflicting personality types into a team that sync's and works together, you have a killer combination.
 
Great episode on at the mo.
Proper deal going on between two of the dragons.
 
CAUTION SPOILER!

That man overboard system is excellent. I work for Sunseeker - a boatbuilder in Poole, one of the largest and most successful, I can well imagine a company like this taking up such a product and fitting it as standard.

I think Peter Jones really wanted a piece of the action there and almost cut off his nose to spit his face by being too hard with the equity share on that particular deal - his face was a picture when he was turned down!! :D
 
I was surprised at the lack of questions the dragons asked about how the product worked though. How does the Australian product work and what advantage does the new one offer? From what I know about sonar it only works through water so would the device work in a large swell etc?

I can only assume that the investors have chance afterwards to back out after getting more details.
 
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