Dream's...something or other log

What does "works better" mean?

Easier?
More size?
More carry over into a lift?

I personally think you would be better off with a barbell of done description, or something heavy for 8-12 reps. :)
 
mrthingyx said:
What does "works better" mean?

Easier?
More size?
More carry over into a lift?

I personally think you would be better off with a barbell of done description, or something heavy for 8-12 reps. :)
Click to expand...

More size (albeit not that important in my view, but always nice nonetheless).
More carry over into the deadlift (general grip strength and I've noticed better lockout strength too).

My initial reasoning for doing Kroc's was with the intention of improving grip initially and they were kept in since I was already barbell rowing twice a week so a dumbbell variation was nice.

What would your preference be as an alternative? BOR, T-Bar?
 
28/07/14 - Madcow - Monday

I had the chance to get used to wearing a belt and with the squats going well on Friday I thought I may as well.

Squats

60g x 5
70kg x 5
82.5kg x 5
97.5kg x 5
110kg x 5

Couldn't open up hips properly on 2nd rep so I came forward but still made every rep. Shall be switching to flat shoes on Wednesday to utilise hammies and glutes more for the low-bar style.

Bench

Bar x lots
30kg x 5
40kg x 5
47.5kg x 5
55kg x 5x5

Pretty decent most reps and sets were fine. I'm trying to make sure I don't use faulty technique.

BOR (Pendlay)

Bar x lots
30kg x 5
37.5kg x 5
45kg x 5
52.5kg x 5
60kg x 5

Fine but going to deload to make sure there is no shoulder yank whatsoever, and at the moment that can only be a good thing.

Back Extensions

BW + 15kg x 12
BW + 15kg x 12

Nice. Might keep the weight the same for another 2 weeks before moving up though.

Planks

30sec x 1
45sec x 2

Squats were good except for the second rep. Smidge more mobility work should do the trick. I shall also attempt 112.5kg without the belt, I think it helped but I don't think it was necessary. I'm curious as to what it will be like transitioning back to low-bar squatting in powerlifting shoes rather than oly.
Bench was fine so I'll add 2.5kg next Monday and take it from there. I just need to get a lot better at pulling the shoulder back and down and locking it in with the lat, whilst not pulling the elbow so close into me.
BOR's were fine but I'm not enjoying the lift atm due to the pull on the shoulder.
 
Dreamforger said:
More size (albeit not that important in my view, but always nice nonetheless).
More carry over into the deadlift (general grip strength and I've noticed better lockout strength too).

My initial reasoning for doing Kroc's was with the intention of improving grip initially and they were kept in since I was already barbell rowing twice a week so a dumbbell variation was nice.

What would your preference be as an alternative? BOR, T-Bar?
Click to expand...

If you are going for size, then bodybuilder rows and t-bars are relatively standard. My general suggestion would be 10-12 reps for heavier weights... As heavy stuff is just awesome. :)

My personal preference is for snatch grip work (snatches, deadlifts, from-floor stiff legged deadlifts, etc.) where the lats get roasted trying to hold the bar back, but each to their own. I also do Pendlay and single arm rows, too, depending on what else I am doing...
 
mrthingyx said:
If you are going for size, then bodybuilder rows and t-bars are relatively standard. My general suggestion would be 10-12 reps for heavier weights... As heavy stuff is just awesome. :)

My personal preference is for snatch grip work (snatches, deadlifts, from-floor stiff legged deadlifts, etc.) where the lats get roasted trying to hold the bar back, but each to their own. I also do Pendlay and single arm rows, too, depending on what else I am doing...
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I've been doing stiff legged deadlifts using straps to get full emphasis on the hamstrings but I guess I could do the lower sets without for the additional grip work. Size is nice but I simply prefer strength so I might just drop the reps on the Kroc's and go for a heavier weight.
 
If you want strength, the best - IMHO - is snatch pulls, followed by other snatch work and then Pendlay rows for 'regular stuff. :)

I thought you mentioned size in your previous post?
 
mrthingyx said:
If you want strength, the best - IMHO - is snatch pulls, followed by other snatch work and then Pendlay rows for 'regular stuff. :)

I thought you mentioned size in your previous post?
Click to expand...

I meant that I noticed I gained more size but I still stand by saying that as nice as it is, it's not really important to me.
I'll give the snatch pulls a look (and try them) once I'm back in Newcastle and have platforms to lift on.
I know that snatch-grip deadlifts are a big favourite amongst the strength community too so maybe they'd be worth a look to.
I must admit I'm slightly terrified of oly lifting currently as it was only recently that I cleaned a bar into my chin and chipped a tooth.
 
mrthingyx said:
You don't needs platform to pull from - you won't be doing much more than a fast deadlift, really. :)

I would suggest snatch grip dead lifting as a start. :)
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So implement the snatch grip deadlift and replace the kroc's then?
Dynamic deadlifts, stiff legged deadlifts and snatch grip deadlifts all in the same session, it's a good thing I enjoy deadlifts.
 
Not necessarily.

My suggestion for snatch stuff would be instead of your current deadlifts, because you will fry your nervous system. Snatch grip work does a lot more than work your lats, and you might well notice your whole upper back being pulled apart by it. :)

I simply think swapping your Kroc rows for something heavier in the 10-12 rep range would be more productive.
 
mrthingyx said:
Not necessarily.

My suggestion for snatch stuff would be instead of your current deadlifts, because you will fry your nervous system. Snatch grip work does a lot more than work your lats, and you might well notice your whole upper back being pulled apart by it. :)

I simply think swapping your Kroc rows for something heavier in the 10-12 rep range would be more productive.
Click to expand...

I'd probably swap out the stiff legged deadlifts then so I can still keep the dynamic work. I'd like to keep the dynamic work because it's teaching me to be quick to improve the pull.
I'll keep the Kroc's for this week and then change the rep range next week as I've already made a lot of adjustments to the program as it is and I don't want to do to much too soon.
 
To be fair, deadlifting followed by snatch grip RDLs is a perfectly fine way to go.

Regardless, your programme should do what you want it do and address your own weaknesses. Only you know what your objectives are in this - I'm just trying to give you ideas as to what may work better... but ultimately, it's your routine, so your call. :)
 
mrthingyx said:
To be fair, deadlifting followed by snatch grip RDLs is a perfectly fine way to go.

Regardless, your programme should do what you want it do and address your own weaknesses. Only you know what your objectives are in this - I'm just trying to give you ideas as to what may work better... but ultimately, it's your routine, so your call. :)
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If you think that snatch grip deadlifts would work the hamstrings and produce the same glute activation as stiffed legs would then I'd happily swap them out. I have only been doing stiff legged deadlifts for the additional hamstring work as I'm sceptical about doing good-mornings with my injury. And these exercise were only picked out because they seemed to be the 'go-to' accessories for deadlift work, although my hamstring and glute activation has got a lot better as a result.
 
Dreamforger said:
If you think that snatch grip deadlifts would work the hamstrings and produce the same glute activation as stiffed legs would then I'd happily swap them out. I have only been doing stiff legged deadlifts for the additional hamstring work as I'm sceptical about doing good-mornings with my injury. And these exercise were only picked out because they seemed to be the 'go-to' accessories for deadlift work, although my hamstring and glute activation has got a lot better as a result.
Click to expand...

They will ruin your hamstrings. And upper back.

Don't say I didn't warn you. :D
 
mrthingyx said:
No different from regular SLDL/RDLs, tbh. If you want strength/size, adjust accordingly.
Click to expand...

I was thinking of something along the lines of this for the first cycle:

6,6,6 @ 45%, 45%, 55% - Week 1
4,4,3 @ 45%, 55%, 65% - Week 2
3,3,3 @ 50%, 60%, 70% - Week 3

The percentages are based on a projected 1rm deadlift max.
I thought this would method would be a good way to introduce snatch grip deadlifts into the routine and 'test the waters' to find out appropriate weights. I'm trying to make sure this won't kill me after all the dynamic work, leave me fresh for heavy squats on Monday and not taking anything away from my main deadlifts on Wednesday. But not having done snatch grip before, does this seem appropriate with the focus for strength?
 
Crikey - a bit early in the morning for percentages? :D

I wouldn't necessarily worry about tapering on your assistance work, however, and the percentages you work at are somewhat irrelevant as if you've not done snatch grip work before, you will likely find sticking to a given percentage pretty tough. ;)

Regardless, try it and see how it goes. :)
 
mrthingyx said:
Crikey - a bit early in the morning for percentages? :D

I wouldn't necessarily worry about tapering on your assistance work, however, and the percentages you work at are somewhat irrelevant as if you've not done snatch grip work before, you will likely find sticking to a given percentage pretty tough. ;)

Regardless, try it and see how it goes. :)
Click to expand...

The percentages for me result in starting at ~60kg and ending on ~100kg in the 3 week period. I was reading that 70% of a 1rm deadlift was a good starting point. So I thought it would be a goodish number to start (end) on. There are also enough percentages for me to experience to get a rough idea what will work for me and then adjust accordingly from there. I'm just hoping that there's enough volume and intensity for strength purposes. Saying this however, it's still an accessory movement so I shouldn't worry too much.
 
30/07/14 - Madcow - Wednesday

Flat shoes instead of high heels and start of increased bench frequency, it was interesting.

Squats (Paused 2-3 count)

Bar x lots
60kg x 5
70kkg x 5
82.5kg x 2x5

Back to true low bar squatting and wide stances, it's strange yet comfy.

Bench (Paused 3 count)

Bar x lots
30kg x 5
37.5kg x 5
45kg x 3x6

Yay no shoulder jip. Getting used to new form so all is good.

Deadlifts

60kg x 5
80kg x 5
95kg x 5
112.5kg x 5
127.5kg x 1 - belt
127.5kg x f
127.5kg x f - belt comes off
127.5kg x 1 - rest due to fatigue
127.5kg x 4 - Awesome

Belt threw me off and I wasted a lot of energy correcting the bar from rolling around on the floor. I also had people constantly walking in front and behind em so I was constantly put off for the first few reps.

Pallof Presses

8.75kg x 12
8.75kg x 12
8.75kg x 12
8.75kg x 12

I had to keep alternating sides for these as I found one side would get used a lot more than the other. I can imagine these being awesome at a higher weight but I couldn't hold onto the pully at higher weights without being pulled towards it.

Rather happy with that as I managed everything just fine, regardless of the silly deadlift stuff. Going back to low bar squatting was weird and I'll use my Wednesday sessions to transition back to it.
Bench felt good (no shoulder issues whatsoever).
Deadlifts were good after the fatigue went. I'm starting to sit back a lot more and it seems to be improving my pull quite a lot.
Not too sure what to think about the pallof presses. They were good but I felt they needed more weight. I can't however use more weight because the pully won the fight every time. Maybe a different core exercise is needed.
 
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