Driving hours (employed) - limits?

Rainmaker · 21 Aug 2009 at 23:08

Basically, my brother has been pulling out his hair looking for work during these turbulent times. He'd finally found temporary work with an agency doing menial/manual labour, but took it gladly while he looked for something more suitable for longer term.

He saw an advert last week for a 'rival' agency, offering van driving/delivery work, and after interview was told he could start yesterday. He was to collect a van from the depot (belonging to the company hiring via the agency) in Liverpool, 20 miles away, at 2.30am. Then he was to drive to Gatwick, deliver his load of printed materials, and re-load the van and deliver at a secondary depot on the way back up north.

The total shift is 17 hours plus, about 15 hours of which are driving and 2 hours waiting/unloading/loading. After starting at 2.30am, he was back in the originating depot at 18.30 and was then told by the manager to be back for 2.30am to do the London run again.

My brother respectfully declined, saying he was in no fit state to drive so many hours again safely after such a long shift and no rest. He's since had two abusive texts from the agency calling him all kinds, and promising never to employ him again.

Surely working 17 hour stints behind the wheel, followed by about 4 hours sleep, and back on the road for another 17 hours isn't legal? I know long distance drivers do long hours, but this takes the mick? Especially since they refuse to pay overtime and it's a flat £5.80 an hour for the 17 hour 'privilege' of working for them :eek:

Obviously he won't be returning to work for this agency either way. But can anyone advise on the legal aspect of the employment/driving terms? Many thanks in advance

radderfire · 21 Aug 2009 at 23:15

I for one thank your brother for bearing the safety of other road users in mind.

Rgds

radderfire · 21 Aug 2009 at 23:20

Some links to get you started:

http://www.transportcafe.co.uk/drivers_hours.html

http://www.usdaw.org.uk/getactive/resource_library/files/WorkingTimeRL/WorkingTimeDirective.pdf

Rgds

ash_scotland88 · 21 Aug 2009 at 23:20

Ive got in mind its 11hours max for three days, then afterwards its 2days only working 8hours and thats also including manual labour.
eg he couldnt drive 3days at 11hours then brick lay for 10hours the next day as it would be illegal.

but i could also be totally wrong!

Rainmaker · 21 Aug 2009 at 23:24

Thanks guys. Although it seems to have chopped and changed quite a bit, the 10 hour rule seems to be the norm. That said, it seems to exempt those driving vans delivering goods, where the MAM is under 3.5 tonnes. Not so sure now. But either way, this situation doesn't seem right (or safe) to me.

edit:

Daily Driving Limit - Domestic A driver must not drive for more than 10 hours in a day. The daily driving limit applies to time spent at the wheel actually driving on a public road. Off-road driving counts as duty time.

Daily Duty Limit - Domestic A driver must not be on duty for more that 11 hours on any working day. A driver is exempt from the daily duty limit on any working day when he does not drive.

But it seems to continue to say that vans <3.5t are exempt from these rules, which seems daft?

Rainmaker · 21 Aug 2009 at 23:28

Ah OK, now I have some clarity courtesy of WhatVan and DFT:

While people driving light commercials grossing at up to 3.5 tonnes do not have their working hours monitored by heavy-truck-style tachographs and are not subject to the EU Drivers Hours rules, UK domestic legislation nonetheless limits how long they can spend at the wheel. The maximum amount of daily driving permitted is 10 hours. A daily duty limit of 11 hours is in force too.

So currently it's 10 hours, but under review. So 17+ hours with no real rest stops, and then a new 17 hour shift starting less than six hours later is definitely illegal. Time to stick up two fingers to the agency and make a phone call I think

john_s · 21 Aug 2009 at 23:49

I'm not sure about the position WRT drivers hours for vans, apart from tacho rules not applying to vehicles under 3.5T.

However, I'd suggest the Working Time Regs probably apply, which entitle a worker to at least 11 consecutive hours of rest in a 24 hour period.

Rainmaker · 21 Aug 2009 at 23:51

john_s said:
I'm not sure about the position WRT drivers hours for vans, apart from tacho rules not applying to vehicles under 3.5T.

However, I'd suggest the Working Time Regs probably apply, which entitle a worker to at least 11 consecutive hours of rest in a 24 hour period.

Isn't that why agencies get you to sign a waiver saying you agree not to have the working time directive apply? Either way though, it seems driving more than 10 hours in a day is definitely illegal, albeit also an offence on behalf of the driver

From what I've seen on the DfT website, he can report the company to the traffic commissioner for our area and gain immunity by doing so. I'll see what they say tomorrow.