DSLR market continues to slow.

Hmm, they're still both making a large amount of money.

Part of this will be recession driven anyway. DSLR's are generally a luxury good, and less people are probably indulging themselves in proper cameras due to smartphones.

kd
 
King Damager said:
Hmm, they're still both making a large amount of money.

Part of this will be recession driven anyway. DSLR's are generally a luxury good, and less people are probably indulging themselves in proper cameras due to smartphones.

kd
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Probably partly true but I think personally it reflects the global market in everything electronics.

TV's, Laptop's, PC's, Consoles, MP3 players, Bluray player etc are showing slowing demand due the economic environment.

Smartphones seem to be bucking that trend but I'd guess that's only because they can be mostly had for free on contract.
 
TVs are slowing because everyone has HD now and 3D failed to take off. Laptops are slowing because of tablets. PCs are slowing because of a combination of the two. MP3s are slowing because nobody can beat the ipod touch and even then most people just get a phone - the ipod classic hasn't been updated in almost 5 years. Blurays have slowed down just because they don't actually offer that much.

Cameras are slowing because the bottom end is being eaten CSCs and smartphones. I doubt the pro ranges are doing substantially worse than they have over the past decade.
 
If you look how many people have a DSLR compared to film days and SLR's I think the camera companies have done well, and made them more popular. I don't remember seeing so many people walking around with an SLR.

Once you have saturated the market people are less inclined I think to upgrade these days.... cameras as other products have reached a "good enough" standard for most consumers. Same I was told is happening with AV amps, they do all people need, so why upgrade.
 
Ksanti said:
Cameras are slowing because the bottom end is being eaten CSCs and smartphones. I doubt the pro ranges are doing substantially worse than they have over the past decade.
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I think mirrorless will kill off allot of low-end DSLR sales. Also high end compacts like the RX100 could do some damage to DSLR's as well.

I think the biggest thing in entry level DSLR's favour.. is how big they are. The average consumer equates 'big camera' with 'good pictures'. It's a similar concept to why there is a 'bridge' camera market I think.
 
Rojin said:
Nikon just got hit for its biggest share slump since 1985 after revising their forecast:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...ost-since-1985-after-forecast-cut-tokyo-mover

Canon also didn't meet analysts expectations:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/31/technology/canon-forecast-falls-short-of-expectations.html?_r=0
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and theres the problem, like every large company. betting on over estimates on how well the sales will do. the markets probably just not growing as fast as they expected. nothing like being greedy.
 
An Exception said:
I think mirrorless will kill off allot of low-end DSLR sales. Also high end compacts like the RX100 could do some damage to DSLR's as well.

I think the biggest thing in entry level DSLR's favour.. is how big they are. The average consumer equates 'big camera' with 'good pictures'. It's a similar concept to why there is a 'bridge' camera market I think.
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As good as the RX100 is, I don't think it's going to do a huge amount of damage. Comparatively, it's not much better than the S95 was in comparison to the DSLRs of its time. Also, the high-quality compact market isn't very big as much more than a backup camera for people with bigger cameras - only a select few consumer p&s users will think something that looks basically the same is worth the outlay when you could have, say, a bridge camera for the same money.
 
GAC said:
and theres the problem, like every large company. betting on over estimates on how well the sales will do. the markets probably just not growing as fast as they expected. nothing like being greedy.
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That's not true at all. A company that consistently overestimates its performance figures in predictions will have a shareholder base who know that it overestimates, and the stock prices will have factored that into account long before the company announces that they haven't actually made that much. BSkyB for example pretty much routinely massively exeeds its quoted expectations for profits etc. for the past half decade, but stock prices don't fluctuate as every serious investor knows that they'll likely outperform their predictions outside of huge economic shocks.
 
Aside from camera phones.

I think perhaps another thing is that DSLRs only really became affordable a few years back. So thats what led to a boom in entry level models and sales, as such many people may already have one now. Those who don't take it too seriously will see little need to upgrade it or buy a new one, especially in the current climate.

I myself know loads of people with entry level DSLRs who only roll them out when they want to take the odd nice shot. They don't need to buy a new model.

The big point is though that the entry level market is incredibly important to the big manufacturers like Canon and Nikon. They are always going to have Pros, and arguably they probably sell more equipment to Pro/Semi than they did in the film days, but its the entry level sales that caused their big boom, so that is what will have dropped.
 
Ksanti said:
That's not true at all. A company that consistently overestimates its performance figures in predictions will have a shareholder base who know that it overestimates, and the stock prices will have factored that into account long before the company announces that they haven't actually made that much. BSkyB for example pretty much routinely massively exeeds its quoted expectations for profits etc. for the past half decade, but stock prices don't fluctuate as every serious investor knows that they'll likely outperform their predictions outside of huge economic shocks.
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if they did it every year fair enough, but of late i keep seeing it in the news how various companies havent hit there expected growth forecasts. now its either what they are doing is a shrinking market or they have over cooked the forecasts, which in all honesty is how a lot of companies are in the state they are now.

they expect XX% growth get half of that and then mark it up as a bad year and expect even more growth the year after to make up for it, i watched it happen at two companies iv worked for, also makes it damned near impossible to make a bonus thanks to idiotic projections.
 
Companies shouldn't be chasing exponential growth anyway. Instead they should focus on servicing the current market better.

Nikon are owned by Mitsubishi, so I doubt they give a damn about what the stock market thinks of their share price.

In fact, once a company has sold it's shares, it's already raised all the capital it's going to from that issue, so share price doesn't really affect it.

The only people who will be worrying about share price will by those who are looking to make a money from buying low and selling high.

More serious investors will be more concerned with dividends.
 
englishpremier said:
Companies shouldn't be chasing exponential growth anyway. Instead they should focus on servicing the current market better.

Nikon are owned by Mitsubishi, so I doubt they give a damn about what the stock market thinks of their share price.

In fact, once a company has sold it's shares, it's already raised all the capital it's going to from that issue, so share price doesn't really affect it.

The only people who will be worrying about share price will by those who are looking to make a money from buying low and selling high.

More serious investors will be more concerned with dividends.
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Not really.

IF a company reports poor profits, it's stock price will fall, as the companies value will fall because there isn't as high expected profits.

Any large investor in the company (and presumably majority shareholder) will therefore lose far more in stock price than they could gain from dividends.

kd
 
englishpremier said:
In fact, once a company has sold it's shares, it's already raised all the capital it's going to from that issue, so share price doesn't really affect it.

The only people who will be worrying about share price will by those who are looking to make a money from buying low and selling high.

More serious investors will be more concerned with dividends.
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Absolute nonsense. Share price and therefore market capitalisation is hugely important to listed companies. The whole board and executive of any listed firm will be fully focussed on delivering what they said they would in order to deliver value back to shareholders. That may be to generate cash, to reinvest heavily, to pay dividends, to acquire other businesses etc etc.

Share price, and the value of the business, is everything.
 
The camera market is tricky at the moment you only have to look how slow the second hand market is and how prices are dropping on the for sale sections of various forums. TP has had a few reasonably priced 70-200 F4L's floating around for a week or so without even an offer when 6-12 months ago these were being snapped up.

Everyone is feeling the pinch and cutting back on luxurys and cameras are just on of those things.
 
a1ex2001 said:
The camera market is tricky at the moment you only have to look how slow the second hand market is and how prices are dropping on the for sale sections of various forums.
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The price dropping has nothing to do with anything but the importers imho. You can go out and buy a lens in this country for 1k new and go to sell it 2 months later and the price has dived much more than it used to because everyone says "It's £800 new on Digital Importer X".

You used to be able to sell gear for the price that the importer now sell for, now you have to take another 20% off the importers price to sell 2nd hand gear regardless of where you bought it.

If I was canon I'd drop international warranty on lenses and offer a 3 year warranty on anything bought in the uk, like sigma now offer a 3 year warranty for uk stock.
 
dannyjo22 said:
The price dropping has nothing to do with anything but the importers imho. You can go out and buy a lens in this country for 1k new and go to sell it 2 months later and the price has dived much more than it used to because everyone says "It's £800 new on Digital Importer X".

You used to be able to sell gear for the price that the importer now sell for, now you have to take another 20% off the importers price to sell 2nd hand gear regardless of where you bought it.

If I was canon I'd drop international warranty on lenses and offer a 3 year warranty on anything bought in the uk, like sigma now offer a 3 year warranty for uk stock.
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The importers as certainly playing a part, but they are not responsible for how slow the second hand market is at the moment with gear just not selling even at competetive prices.

Canon don't care about the imports thing they still get the money they want from the sale in HK the people who should be stopping it are customs and excise and I can't believe the growing trade will be allowed to go on. The growth in the dodgy tax dodging importers in the last couple of years has been frightening.
 
a1ex2001 said:
Canon don't care about the imports thing they still get the money they want from the sale in HK the people who should be stopping it are customs and excise and I can't believe the growing trade will be allowed to go on. The growth in the dodgy tax dodging importers in the last couple of years has been frightening.
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If they don't care about imports, why don't they offer international warranty on bodies and Nikon are even tougher for repairs from what I have read. Sigma too.
 
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