DX10 may be coming to AGP

[vandisian]

Pants

Well the transisition from AGP to PCI-E happened a lot quicker than it should have done, AGP still had a lot of life in it and still does to be honest, so theres no real reason to kill it off completely

And the majority of PC users are still on AGP anyway

where did you pull that croc from, i know no one, i repeat, no one who still uses and agp card save for those people who dont know what a graphics card is anyway.

 

[Mul]

Depends what graphics card, nV and their partners plan on making for AGP.

This thread speaks of an 8600 series AGP (G84 AGP), which at a guess wouldn't be any quicker than an X1900/7900 series card, but with DX10 support. My opinion, is sure why not?

Considering, AGP users have X1950 Pro's and Gainward 7900GT AGP's in their AGP machines, then I don't see what the problem is. There are plenty of AGP users with Intel and AMD cpu's clocked upwards of 3.6GHz and 2.5GHz respectively. Some will still benefit from it.
To add to that, the G84 is meant to be pin to pin compatible with the 7600 AGP and therefore the 6600 AGP PCB. Along with the rumours that it'll need very little power, it seems like a nippy and efficient card to jam into an AGP based PC.

Granted, on plenty of systems their CPU's will hold back such a card but who cares if they see even a slight performance gain as well as Direct X 10 support.

-----------------

Now if we're talking about an 8800GTS AGP, then it's getting a little stupid. There would be a small market for those out there that would make almost total use of this card (Pentium M @ 2.6GHz+ users, AMD64 @ 2.6GHz+ users), but for the majority, it's like using hamster wheels as the powerplant for Airbus A380 engines...


That's my say.


Mul

 

[FreeStream]

Its not
a 8800gts works well in a 8x speed pci-e lane which is similar to the agpx8 so it will have enough power

Errm, and thats relevant to my post how exactly?

 

[afraser2k]

where did you pull that croc from, i know no one, i repeat, no one who still uses and agp card save for those people who dont know what a graphics card is anyway.

Then you need to get out more.

I decided on buying a Gainward Bliss 7800GS+ card from OcUK when they were first released as at the time there were no AGP/PCI-E motherboards supporting s939.

To move to PCI-E for me would have meant buying a new motherboard, memory, processor, cooler (if I didn't go for retail), then possibly have to reinstall Windows XP and that's before any compatibility issues with my power supply. There are a lot of Intel users who are even worse off when it comes to "upgrading".

The thing is many of these systems still perform well in modern games and people just don't see the point of having to go through an expensive system overhaul and will just want to upgrade the AGP graphics card once they become more demanding. With the instability of Vista in gaming just now people are even more put off moving to PCI-E (as Vista was the reason I held off as well). My system is more than capable as a gaming system today and I doubt I'll make another major purchase until the Christmas rush when I expect we'll see the push to DX10 coming in.

A DX10 AGP card at the right price will sell well and the companies know it from the success of the 7800GS/x1950, even at £50 more than the same card in PCI-E due to the reasons given above.

 

[Pants]

My brother is interested in a new card and he has an overclocked AMD64 X2 on AGP.

It just depends if the AGP version has more of a premium than the cost of a new PCIE mobo. If it is then he might as well get a new mobo and the PCIE version. If not then the AGP card is the better option.

Until you know the price difference between the DirectX 10 AGP and PCIE cards you can't comment if they are worth it or not.

 

[HangTime]

What good PCI-E mobos are there still available which support S754 or S478 cpus for example? Are they fully featured with good overclocking capability?

Been plenty of posts since I asked this and I'm still waiting for an answer... obviously they also need to fall into the right price bracket too.

Also I think easyrider doesn't appreciate the fact that for many PC users changing a motherboard is foreign territory. If I think about all the people I know with computers and play games, the vast majority of them have never done it to my knowledge. Whereas changing a gfx card isn't so rare.

Simply claiming that is down to people being too lazy to install windows is naive. I've installed windows dozens of times but only changed a mobo half a dozen times in the past 9 years. Likewise I know people who have never changed a mobo, but have done windows installs.

Even as someone who has been building my own pcs for nearly 10 years, changing a motherboard isn't something I would be especially keen to do unless I could see a clear benefit from doing so. Every time I've done so it has been due to moving to a new socket (s7->Slot1->s370->s478->s754->s939) rather than simply wanting to switch from PCI->AGP->PCI-E.

In fact with hindsight, moving from S754->S939 was perhaps a little premature on my part and I might have been wise to stick around a bit longer.

 

[GuruJockStrap]

Lol at some of the comments made in this thread.

I think people need to realise that a forum like this does not represent the entire PC ownership population. This is an enthusiasts forum full of people wishing to stay on the bleeding edge and play games in uber high resolutions with 60+ FPS. Thats a tiny percentage of PC users.

 

[mrthingyx]

yea agp is still strong, old athlon xp machines can still pull their weight in most newer stuff. the gpu is still the limiting factor.

I haven't played any recent FPS (Fear, etc.) other than HL2 so I can't comment on that, but my Athlon XP is brought to its knees in spectacular fashion by X3. Even on minimum detail at 1280x760, I get a stuttering 24fps. Going from a 9800Pro to an X800XT gave me an additional 3fps.

Why AGP? Simply because there are still a lot of very fast Opteron/Athlon 64 systems out there with no need for a CPU upgrade but who will greatly benefit from a GPU one.

 

[jrodga2k5]

fact: you can get someone to fit it for you no doubt

Go PCI-E

 

[xiphrex]

I dont see the point, surely dx10 games are going to need some decent cpu power to play properly, whats the point of upgrading your gpu to a dx10 capable one if you on an AMD 3200 or whatever?

 

[Cyber-Mav]

I dont see the point, surely dx10 games are going to need some decent cpu power to play properly, whats the point of upgrading your gpu to a dx10 capable one if you on an AMD 3200 or whatever?

better performance in dx9 and the ability to run dx10 games.

 

[FreeStream]

better performance in dx9 and the ability to run dx10 games.

"run DX10 games" What in DX10 mode running at DX9 detail level?

Has anyone played a DX10 game yet? I don't think so. WE have NO idea what the performance is like, but ill bet on there being more pixels etc to push than ever before to get these fancy effects.

So for the moment ill stand by the fact that DX10 AGP is pointless, faster DX9 cards, fine, DX10 no.

 

[MikeHunt79]

lol when is AGP ganna die

nevar!

 

[Cyber-Mav]

"run DX10 games" What in DX10 mode running at DX9 detail level?

Has anyone played a DX10 game yet? I don't think so. WE have NO idea what the performance is like, but ill bet on there being more pixels etc to push than ever before to get these fancy effects.

So for the moment ill stand by the fact that DX10 AGP is pointless, faster DX9 cards, fine, DX10 no.

more pixels to push would mean a more powerful gfx card.

besides my xp3200 cpu is more than enough power to run half life 2, but the gfx card just won;t hack it at 1600x1200 with AA, so a dx10 card for agp would be great for me.

 

[Combat squirrel]

more pixels to push would mean a more powerful gfx card.

besides my xp3200 cpu is more than enough power to run half life 2, but the gfx card just won;t hack it at 1600x1200 with AA, so a dx10 card for agp would be great for me.

U er seen your sig, think someones hiding a more powerful PC somewhere in your house, take a looksey around

 

[queamin]

I got a 3800x2 at 2.5 with 8800gts320 and with videocard at stock i am about 25 to 30% down on c2d systems in 06 so what chance has a cpu lower than mine really got at pushing a dx10 card without beening to much of a bottleneck just wondering.

 

[The Running Man]

No cost benefit analysis at all.

AGP cost more for slower cards than PCI-E .... FACT

Its about that you can get a faster pc for less money.

You can change your mobo and gfx card and have better performance.

you can also pay a premium for a AGP card have less performance and spend more money.

So Linear it is.

Sorry for the facts

yea but say you have an old pc with an AGP port and have £70 and watch to give it a speed boost - this would be an ideal solution really...

to upgrade to a new mobo, probably a new cpu and then possibly new ram just to be able to get a "cheaper" pci-e gfx card is just a fallacy in itself. FACTOID.

 

[FreeStream]

yea but say you have an old pc with an AGP port and have £70 and watch to give it a speed boost - this would be an ideal solution really...

to upgrade to a new mobo, probably a new cpu and then possibly new ram just to be able to get a "cheaper" pci-e gfx card is just a fallacy in itself. FACTOID.

But WHY!?!?!?!?!?!

If you have a XP/478 system, then im sorry its just not going to be quick enough to allow the gfx card to get on with it.

Im going to guess that this G84 is going to be 50-60% the power of the G80, therefore a early AMD64 system is gonna be needed to feed it at the lower resolutions.

Im seriously doubtful that a DX10 card is worth it for AGP, maybe a more powerful DX9 card is required, but even then I think a X1950 Pro will do quite fine because if someone has an old system and can't afford to spend much the chances are that there screen is 1024x768 or 1280x960. My X1900XTX does just fine at 1600x1200 and 6xAA and 16xAF so a X1950 Pro will do fine at low res.

AND TBH it should be left until the card is out, but my betting it will be around £150, maybe more...

 

[HangTime]

I got a 3800x2 at 2.5 with 8800gts320 and with videocard at stock i am about 25 to 30% down on c2d systems in 06 so what chance has a cpu lower than mine really got at pushing a dx10 card without beening to much of a bottleneck just wondering.

Don't forget that 3dmark runs at 1280x1024 by default, where cpu limitations come into play a lot more.

Look at gaming benchmarks in 1600x1200 and above with AA/AF and it's a different story, with most modern games being fairly GPU limited:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/geforce_8800_gtx_gts_amd_cpu_scaling/page12.asp

As you can see, in demanding games like Oblivion, we are GPU limited with a 8800GTX even at 1280x1024. An FX-62 performs pretty much identically to a X2-3800+, despite being clocked around 40% higher and with only half the cache.

I'd wager that people running AGP systems with A64s clocked in the 2.7ghz+ range, or P4s running in excess of 3.5ghz would likely gain significantly in such games should a nice fast card (better than x1950pro) be available. Nothing wrong with their cpus.

 

[Dogoid]

some people don't realize video cards are not just for playing games, there is a world of use for a agp card with dx10 that isn't intended for games.

dx10 , like dx9 willl give you a new advanced api which will unleash new effects and better precision in textures etc.

so in a visual arts environment not central to real time graphics , a dx10 agp card will benefit not only the conscientious gamer , but visual artists who could use the new api on their current agp rig without having to upgrade to a whole new system .


dog