E-bike snobbery

scoopex

scoopex

scoopex

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Got into an interesting X/Twitter spat yesterday where it was claimed that all E-bikes are classed as motorcycles and therefore need to be taxed and insured. I am not the fittest and as both a Covid and Stroke survivor I purchased an E-bike for cycling for leisure.

Why is it that some cyclists and groups feel that they have the right to dismiss E-bike cyclists as a problem?
 
They're ignorant.

From https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules

You can ride an electric bike if you’re 14 or over, as long as it meets certain requirements.

These electric bikes are known as ‘electrically assisted pedal cycles’ (EAPCs). You do not need a licence to ride one and it does not need to be registered, taxed or insured.

What counts as an EAPC​

An EAPC must have pedals that can be used to propel it.

It must show either:

  • the power output
  • the manufacturer of the motor
It must also show either:

  • the battery’s voltage
  • the maximum speed of the bike
Its electric motor:

  • must have a maximum power output of 250 watts
  • should not be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling more than 15.5mph
An EAPC can have more than 2 wheels (for example, a tricycle).

Where you can ride​

If a bike meets the EAPC requirements it’s classed as a normal pedal bike. This means you can ride it on cycle paths and anywhere else pedal bikes are allowed.

Other kinds of electric bike​

Any electric bike that does not meet the EAPC rules is classed as a motorcycle or moped and needs to be registered and taxed. You’ll need a driving licence to ride one and you must wear a crash helmet.
 
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Back in 2010 and before I used to call it cheating.
In 2011 I started to have lower limb problems and somebody suggested an eBike so I laughed and once again called it cheating.
He asked me if driving a car, motorbike, moped, bus, taxi etc was cheating and I said of course not but he said it's just another form of transport to get you from A to B.
Since driving to and from work was a no go by 2011 I had converted two £150 Trek bikes and still use them now in 2024.
They are both road legal so anybody moaning about them can swivel.
 
I think it all comes down to how you view bikes and what you want to get from them. No right or wrong answer really. On one hand I like the idea of an electric cargo bike to ditch the car for those smaller journeys and nursery pick up.

Then on the other hand, I can't stand the road bikes that look like a road bike but with a hidden motor. But that's because I view road bikes as an exercise item and having an electric one sort of negates the point - for me. I get it for older people or people out of shape and wanting to get back into shape as it would help them get out.

My friend bought an electric bike a few years ago and he was of a similar age to me and I still think it was a stupid purchase. Would get on my nerves if we'd ride together and going up a big hill and he'd just put his motor on and still pretend he is having a hard time.
 
Junglist said:
My friend bought an electric bike a few years ago and he was of a similar age to me and I still think it was a stupid purchase. Would get on my nerves if we'd ride together and going up a big hill and he'd just put his motor on and still pretend he is having a hard time.
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The thing is i find it evens up the playing field for group rides. You set the assist as much as needed to enjoy the ride. When i did a Gran Fondo the other week a guy with a motor was riding in a group of non electric bikes. I imagine without it he'd be miles behind and they'd either have to wait at the top for him or he'd just lose the ability to ride with friends. If he's only capable of 200w but his mates are capable of 250w then depending on the level of assist he might still be exerting the same amount of effort as he'd put out on a normal bike and so be struggling just as much. The only difference is he's now able to keep up.

The only reason electric bikes annoy me is when i'm out with the wife and she can fly up hills at 25mph on a dutch style bike as it's not limited and i'm killing myself. Made even worse when we've had a few beers and big lunch out somewhere :(
 
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Oh I fully understand why people use them but they just don't suit me or my mentality. That may well change a decade down the line but right now I am not a fan of them for myself.

I like seeing improvements and feeling like I'm getting better at something and electric takes away from that. But, well, you know, that's just like uh, my opinion, man.

​

 
Junglist said:
Oh I fully understand why people use them but they just don't suit me or my mentality. That may well change a decade down the line but right now I am not a fan of them for myself.

I like seeing improvements and feeling like I'm getting better at something and electric takes away from that. But, well, you know, that's just like uh, my opinion, man.
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Yeah i get that. It's not something i'm a fan of either. They don't feel as natural to me whenever i've tried them, although i do like the idea of the Skarper device where it's really quick to add/remove it. It'd be great to be able to go on a ride in the morning for fitness, then come home and stick it on for a sunday ride with the wife to go for lunch without arriving at a bar dripping in sweat.
 
Junglist said:
I think it all comes down to how you view bikes and what you want to get from them. No right or wrong answer really. On one hand I like the idea of an electric cargo bike to ditch the car for those smaller journeys and nursery pick up.

Then on the other hand, I can't stand the road bikes that look like a road bike but with a hidden motor. But that's because I view road bikes as an exercise item and having an electric one sort of negates the point - for me. I get it for older people or people out of shape and wanting to get back into shape as it would help them get out.

My friend bought an electric bike a few years ago and he was of a similar age to me and I still think it was a stupid purchase. Would get on my nerves if we'd ride together and going up a big hill and he'd just put his motor on and still pretend he is having a hard time.
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Back around 2013 my Brother in Law kept taking the pee out of me so I setup an experiment.
I told him to come to my house on his £6000 Cervelo so I told him to ride down the bank to the newsagent, turn round and get a feel of how hard it was to get back up the bank.
On his return I had my Hybrid waiting so I told him to do the same and adjust the pedal assist so it felt like his Cervelo.
He returned and said he needed it on 4 out of 5 pedal assist.
I was now waiting with my MTB and told him to do the same.
He returned and he was out of breath because it was so hard compared to his Cervelo and he said there wasn't a pedal assist that made it the same experience.
At this point he hadn't realised that he was calling himself a cheat for having an expensive road bike compared to my eBikes :)

At that time I was getting to work on my eBikes not sweating but coming home I'd turn the motor off for the best workouts ever making them the best exercise machines.
Apparently some Cycling Teams use motors in their training schedule

 
I'm not sure what you're trying to prove? Road bikes are easier to cycle on the road than mountain bikes? I don't think having a bike better suited for a task at hand is cheating. Would you call someone cheating for using a phillips head screwdriver on a phillips head screw or should they use a flat headed one?!

As I said with my first post. I don't like them and outside of niche uses I see little use for them for my lifestyle. If they benefit others, which they obviously do, then more power to the people it benefits as that's only a good thing.

Just for me? Yeah, nah. As I said, it all comes back to which lens you view a product through and through my eyes it doesn't really give me what I'm looking for.

So I guess I have a little bit of snobbery. I wont judge someone (too much) for an electric bike but I may be a bit stingy with my strava Kudos :p
 
I'm all for them if they suit what you want from cycling.
I'm lucky enough that I'm fit enough to cycle as far as I want, but as I get older things might change.
I don't like that they're still mostly full builds, non standardised and force you into shops for servicing and repairs.
I cycle for fun and fitness I have a friend that only cycles one in a blue moon so an e-bike means he can keep up with me, he still runs out of battery before I'm tired as well.
 
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It looks like you're trying to prove an electric bike is every bit as difficult to ride as an non electric bike. Which is obviously not true. If you electric bike was a road bike it would be a more 1:1 comparison. But comparing an electric mountain/hybrid bike to a road bike is pointless as even without the motor a hybrid/mountain bike is always going to be less efficient and harder to ride than a road bike, if you're riding on smooth roads.

They work for you, which is great. There's no point trying to convince me that they're great though because I wont see them in that light until I find myself actually needing one.

I already have an electronic unicycle for when I want to get about without exerting myself
 
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Junglist said:
It looks like you're trying to prove an electric bike is every bit as difficult to ride as an non electric bike.
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It did for him and he rides in a local team, like I say, he never ever makes jokes about them any more because his bike is so light it rides itself.
So yes, my eBikes are harder to ride than his Cervelo even on highest pedal assist.
Well the Hybrid is equal to it on 4th assist, MTB doesnt come close.
His mate Roy who rides in the same team bought a couple of eBikes for him and his wife to ride on all types of surfaces, when they go riding he puts his on very low assist or off so he's using it like an exercise bike.
 
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I really liked that experiment and I think I understand it. Reducing the weight and road friction etc particularly when going uphill has the same effect as not reducing weight etc but instead adding additional power to overcome the deficit.

Why other cyclists and groups have a dislike of electric bikes. I think it’s a case of perceived cheating. In the case of car drivers I suspect it’s just thinking there’s another bloody cycle on the road.

I’m on the cusp of buying an electric bike having had health issues recently, one knee replacement installed and I suspect second one coming in a few years … my longest ride this year has been 40km, just a mix of bridleways and tarmac but it knocked me flat.

I think there are outlier cases where I don’t agree with electric bikes being used, such as on loamy singletrack where they do rip things up somewhat.
 
You don't need to defend your preference of electric bikes to me. It's the beautiful thing about opinions and options. For me, they serve no purpose as they go agaisnt what I want to achieve when I want to ride a bike and that is OK. Just as it is OK that an electric bike is more useful to you in your situation than a non electric bike would be.

It's not a subject that requires us to agree or prove that one of us is right or wrong.
 
Junglist said:
You don't need to defend your preference of electric bikes to me. It's the beautiful thing about opinions and options. For me, they serve no purpose as they go agaisnt what I want to achieve when I want to ride a bike and that is OK. Just as it is OK that an electric bike is more useful to you in your situation than a non electric bike would be.

It's not a subject that requires us to agree or prove that one of us is right or wrong.
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but you're missing the point that you can get more strenuous exercise out of an eBike and the reason why some Professionals use them.
You go out on an heavier bike anyway and turn the pedal assist down low or off, I'll guarantee the exercise will be way more tiring than riding your normal bike because mine feels like I'm giving somebody a 'backie' when I have the motor off.
Again you may have no use for exercise like this and just want a normal bike but if you want to get fit really quick get an eBike and turn the motor off or low.
Nobody is right or wrong but I just want you to see how good an eBike can be for very strenuous exercise.
One of my mates full powers to a woods, turns power off and gives himself a massive workout until he's dying then turns the power on and goes home, he'd never get that particular type of exercise on his normal MTBs.
he used to be in a situation with his normal bikes where he'd ring his wife up to come pick him up because he hadn't got the strength to get home, now it's win win.
 
SexyGreyFox said:
but you're missing the point that you can get more strenuous exercise out of an eBike and the reason why some Professionals use them.
You go out on an heavier bike anyway and turn the pedal assist down low or off, I'll guarantee the exercise will be way more tiring than riding your normal bike because mine feels like I'm giving somebody a 'backie' when I have the motor off.
Again you may have no use for exercise like this and just want a normal bike but if you want to get fit really quick get an eBike and turn the motor off or low.
Nobody is right or wrong but I just want you to see how good an eBike can be for very strenuous exercise.
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I am not missing any point. Some people may get a more strenuous workout and I expect those are people with issues that would prevent them from being able to exercise and I expect they are the exception and not the rule and as hard as a workout you can get on an eBike. You can get harder on a traditional bike. I don't even understand how this can be an argument.


SexyGreyFox said:
One of my mates full powers to a woods, turns power off and gives himself a massive workout until he's dying then turns the power on and goes home, he'd never get that particular type of exercise on his normal MTBs.
he used to be in a situation with his normal bikes where he'd ring his wife up to come pick him up because he hadn't got the strength to get home, now it's win win.
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So in essence what you're saying is... One of your mates isn't fit enough to blast full speed to the woods, have several hours of pumping some trails and then return home once he is defeated without battery power? I know mountain biking is tough on the whole body so there is no shame, nor am I trying to shame, that it leaves them shattered. Though my interpretation of that is that the eBike allows him to ride for a longer duration than a traditional bike would. I imagine being able to use battery power to get back to the top of the hills allows him to have more runs down them.

So I really disagree that an eBike gives a more strenuous workout because if he was after strain. He could blast to the woods, ride the trails and then ride home. What the eBike has done is allowed him to have more time out. That is not a bad thing.

The motor element of an eBike is a crutch. Get to a big hill on an eBike and you can tell your legs haven't got it in them? You can rely on the pedal assist. Misjudge how much fuel you needed for your journey and you bonk several miles from home? You can rely on the pedal assist. Those two things happen to you on a traditional bike and your option is to get off your bike and walk or call up for rescue.


eBikes are fine and great tools for the people that need them. The sales figures back that up. It comes across like I think they're no good for exercise and that's not my intent. They're great if they help someone exercise more as the best type of exercise is the one you actually do.

It's just that I will never see them as good as exercise as a traditional bike powered by me as the engine.

But that's just me. A non important person on the internet with an opinion that shouldn't spoil your enjoyment of your eBikes.
 
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