E-bike snobbery

[Hawk Tuah]

You're not taking into account the people who are buying these illegal bikes, the majority believe electric bike = no tax, MOT or insurance.

Well exactly. No different to people riding other motor vehicles illegally.

Separate out those who want to rid an e-bike or scooter legally and responsibly, from those who don't.

 

[fez]

I don't think the people buying the illegal ebikes think they are legal at all. They are just much more manageable, cheap and sit in that grey area where they are unlikely to get in trouble with one. No number plate etc.

 

[Martynt74]

I don't think the people buying the illegal ebikes think they are legal at all. They are just much more manageable, cheap and sit in that grey area where they are unlikely to get in trouble with one. No number plate etc.

I disagree. I think most of the general public have no idea and just get sold something which sounds good.

My wife initially bought one second hand which had a throttle and thought it was brilliant because it helped when her disability was at it's worst and often used the throttle for initially setting off so she didn't have as many balance issues. She had no idea (at the time) that it was illegal.

I imagine most people fall into the same category. You either see an illegal bike but it won't be obvious it's illegal. Bit like e-scooters. If it wasn't for the publicity i imagine very few people would know they're technically illegal because they're sold so carefree. Then you consider people who fit Bafang motors as a side business. You offer someone on the street a throttle for an extra tenner and i don't imagine much people would have a clue that could turn a legal bike into an illegal one.

Yes there's plenty who know and don't care, but i think the vast majority just are ignorant of the law.

 

[fez]

I disagree. I think most of the general public have no idea and just get sold something which sounds good.

My wife initially bought one second hand which had a throttle and thought it was brilliant because it helped when her disability was at it's worst and often used the throttle for initially setting off so she didn't have as many balance issues. She had no idea (at the time) that it was illegal.

I imagine most people fall into the same category. You either see an illegal bike but it won't be obvious it's illegal. Bit like e-scooters. If it wasn't for the publicity i imagine very few people would know they're technically illegal because they're sold so carefree. Then you consider people who fit Bafang motors as a side business. You offer someone on the street a throttle for an extra tenner and i don't imagine much people would have a clue that could turn a legal bike into an illegal one.

Yes there's plenty who know and don't care, but i think the vast majority just are ignorant of the law.

I think we are talking about different kinds of ebikes. The oiks on the throttle assist ones that look like dirt bikes and go super fast know what they are getting and that its illegal. The average user getting a throttle assist e-bike to get about easily, perhaps not.

 

[China Man]

This is what posted today on a facebook ebike group, a lovely video demo of how fast it can go on UK road, if the government really want to tackle the problem then all it takes is a few high profile cases to be publicly dealt with. I guess we have other priorities at the moment with the current affairs.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

I think we are talking about different kinds of ebikes. The oiks on the throttle assist ones that look like dirt bikes and go super fast know what they are getting and that its illegal. The average user getting a throttle assist e-bike to get about easily, perhaps not.

Like I said earlier, all five people I know who had them confiscated were 4 normal working blokes who thought they were legal and the other one was a young lad whose Dad didn't know they were illegal.
I am amazed he let his lad go out on a 30mph bike with no helmet

 

[SexyGreyFox]

This is what posted today on a facebook ebike group, a lovely video demo of how fast it can go on UK road, if the government really want to tackle the problem then all it takes is a few high profile cases to be publicly dealt with. I guess we have other priorities at the moment with the current affairs.

I'm in a Group called De-restricted eMTB Chat and I'm often gobsmacked.
There was somebody on an eScooter doing 75mph.

 

[China Man]

I'm in a Group called De-restricted eMTB Chat and I'm often gobsmacked.
There was somebody on an eScooter doing 75mph.

And life is often unfair that these example of behaviour may live to tell the tale and some poor family end up paying the price when accident happens. In some ways eScooter are worse given the small wheels and more difficult to balance.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

And life is often unfair that these example of behaviour may live to tell the tale and some poor family end up paying the price when accident happens. In some ways eScooter are worse given the small wheels and more difficult to balance.

Last year I was approaching this tunnel at 50mph and an eScooter came flying past me.
Yes I was 10mph over the limit but it was 11pm at night and I thought I was the only person on the road but a few seconds later two Cop cars in hot pursuit.

 

[arknor]

We have drone laws now allows sub 250g to fly more freely and a system where you have to register to get a Pilot ID and then get insurance for the drone

you don't have to get any insurance for recreational flying and the whole operator ID thing is a waste of time.


if your doing something dodgy why would you use an operator ID? it's a literal sticker of numbers that mean nothing... unless your law abiding and happen to do something naughty.

if your a chav or whatever your not sticking some operator ID sticker on your bike, it's not like anyone polices anything these day

The pilot ID is not just money grabbing but a compulsory basic training course. An Ebike ID and also register the bike and display the ID on the bike and motor etc.

erm./.. its nothing like a "basic training course" it';s common sense and about 12questions or something..

a2 cocfc would be a proper course..

why would anyone display an ID on a bike or motor? you know with drones the actual drone isn't registered anywhere right? you never give the serial number of the drone or anything..

It's just a sticker so they can identify whos drone it was if you broke the law and a plane hit it or it falls into a crowd at a music concert....

but why would you use a sticker? you think these people who don't care about the law are suddenly going to stop riding illegal ebikes because they are supposed to register and get a sticker?


They know the bikes they are buying are illegal in the first place.... they should go after the people importing them from china..

Chav on a Sauron is basically the same as riding around on an unregistered motorbike with no insurance, no mot, no license, nothing... they don't care but if we implement a system where they have to display a sticker.

suddenly they start obeying the law

where's the army of police who are going to put up checkpoints?? they can;t even stop shop lifters

loads of dog walkers don't obey the highway code either, maybe we could bring in dog stickers and suddenly all dogs will be on a short leash in shared spaces


if we bring in stickers for humans we could create a utopia no society has ever dreamed of.
we could call it

Chinas surveillance state

 

[China Man]

Last year I was approaching this tunnel at 50mph and an eScooter came flying past me.
Yes I was 10mph over the limit but it was 11pm at night and I thought I was the only person on the road but a few seconds later two Cop cars in hot pursuit.

come on, you can't leave me hanging like that, And Theeennn... ?

you don't have to get any insurance for recreational flying and the whole operator ID thing is a waste of time.


if your doing something dodgy why would you use an operator ID? it's a literal sticker of numbers that mean nothing... unless your law abiding and happen to do something naughty.

if your a chav or whatever your not sticking some operator ID sticker on your bike, it's not like anyone polices anything these days.

Have I got it wrong? You can join a drone flying club and have insurance came with it, I am with FPVUK.org for a while and used to be around £20 a year and you get £5m public liability insurance. I always worry that it fall out of the sky and someone going to sue me for billions.

The point of the whole operator ID thing is to let people who is genuinely enjoy flying drones sensibly a way to get a standard education of the current drone law and fly legally. Of course there are people out there who are bad ass and like to test their limits and break every set law they seems trivial but this is not for that, when I first flying drone it was the time you have to built your own and everything is illegal.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

come on, you can't leave me hanging like that, And Theeennn... ?

Well I slowed down immediately to 40 and they were all gone by the time I came out of the tunnel.
If the rider knows the area there are many places he could lose them with illegal moves.

 

[arknor]

Have I got it wrong? You can join a drone flying club and have insurance came with it, I am with FPVUK.org for a while and used to be around £20 a year and you get £5m public liability insurance. I always worry that it fall out of the sky and someone going to sue me for billions.

you can but insurance is not needed for recreational flying, your drone isn't going to fall out of the sky on it;s own.

that's why remaining VLOS is critical, a bird can easily kick your 250g drone out of the sky

even a Pidgeon or magpie can take out your drone, if you see a bird circling near your drone you need to go straight up, birds have to fly circles like planes to gain altitude.

soon nesting season btw, the birds will get aggressive, so be careful where you fly from say feb

The point of the whole operator ID thing is to let people who is genuinely enjoy flying drones sensibly a way to get a standard education of the current drone law and fly legally.

it doesn't seam to work.

if you look on youtube you will find plenty of drone videos where they obviously didn;t keep VLOS.
they are flying over motorways and A roads which as far as i'm aware is strictly forbidden as it counts as flying over a crowd.
it doesn;t matter if they are in vehicles or not.

I have a mini 4 pro with operator ID, flyer ID but how often would I ever fly where I would attract police attention anyway?

the whole drone ID thing probably came about because of those idiot auditors on youtube bothering police stations etc all the time.

 

[China Man]

you can but insurance is not needed for recreational flying, your drone isn't going to fall out of the sky on it;s own.

that's why remaining VLOS is critical, a bird can easily kick your 250g drone out of the sky

even a Pidgeon of magpie can take out your drone, if you see a bird circling near your drone you need to go straight up, birds have to fly circles like planes to gain altitude

it doesn't seam to work.

if you look on youtube you will find plenty of drone videos where they obviously didn;t keep VLOS.
they are flying over motorways and A roads which as far as i'm aware is strictly forbidden as it counts as flying over a crowd.
it doesn;t matter if they are in vehicles or not.

I guess it is for my own peace of mind, I am a home owner and my profession requires me to have a clean record in the society. Drone is a lot more advance than when I first started but It can still fail and when it fails it can cause problem especially now we can fly over buildings and people legally (sub 250 class). If my 250g fall from 400ft and hit a Ferrari I would love to be able to show my insurance and may be some how cover some of the cost of repair, or worse if it fall on someones head (chances are slim but again just for peace of mind).

Nothing will stop people breaking the law if they choose to do so, at least some population of drone flyer will have a path to follow with the right information. If you fly without an operator ID it makes it a lot easier for police to deal with if they are caught.

 

[arknor]

If my 250g fall from 400ft and hit a Ferrari

chatgpt says it wouldn't do much damage

Key considerations:​

1. Kinetic energy of the drone:
   From the previous calculation, the kinetic energy just before impact is:
   
   KE=12mv2KE = \frac{1}{2} m v^2KE=21mv2
   Substituting:
   
   KE=12⋅0.25⋅(48.88)2≈299.2 JoulesKE = \frac{1}{2} \cdot 0.25 \cdot (48.88)^2 \approx 299.2 \, \text{Joules}KE=21⋅0.25⋅(48.88)2≈299.2Joules
   This is the energy available to potentially cause damage.
2. Impact location on the car:
   • Roof or bonnet: Modern car roofs and bonnets are made of thin sheet metal. A direct impact could leave a dent or scratch. The exact damage depends on the drone's velocity, the sharpness of its edges, and the impact angle.
   • Windscreen: A falling drone could potentially crack or chip the glass, especially if it hits a weak point in the glass (like near the edges). However, car windscreens are made of laminated safety glass and are designed to resist high impacts, so a full break is unlikely.
3. Drone construction:
   The Mini 4 Pro is lightweight and primarily made of plastic, so its structural integrity would break apart upon impact, which could absorb some energy and reduce the damage to the car.
4. Car's material and design:
   • Cars with lightweight aluminium panels (common in modern vehicles) are more prone to dents.
   • Heavier, sturdier vehicles with steel panels would likely suffer less visible damage.

---

Likely damage scenarios:​

1. Superficial damage:
   • Small dent or scratch on a panel (e.g., bonnet or roof).
   • Minor paint damage if the drone's sharp edges scrape the surface.
2. Moderate damage:
   • Cracks, chips, or small breaks in the windscreen.
   • Larger dents if the drone hits at high speed and on a weak part of the panel.
3. Unlikely severe damage:
   • A 250-gram drone is too lightweight to cause catastrophic damage to a car, such as puncturing metal or fully shattering a windscreen.

---

Conclusion:​

The falling drone would likely cause minor to moderate damage, such as a dent, scratch, or possibly a small chip/crack in the windscreen. The cost of repair would depend on the specific damage, but it’s unlikely to be severe enough to compromise the car's overall structure.

I think throwing a stone at someone would do more damage than a drone dropping on them.

if the drone was drving along a motorway at 40mph and hits an oncoming car doing 70mph it's probably a whole different story.
same for planes, they can puncture the paper thin sheet metal on the wings etc

but just dropping out of the sky seems it wouldn't do much/