E4300 v E6300

[clv101]

So given that I can either run a 4300 @ the 6300's multi anyway or take advantage of its higher stock multi I can currently see nil reason to get an E6300. Is this really right - or does the E6300 generally clock higher than an E4300?

Some would argue that E6300 will clock higher than E4300 - but we're talking about *some* E6x00 getting 3.6-3.8GHz where the E4300 seem to top out around 3.5GHz...

However I think this difference is only for extreme clockers to worry about. My E4300 went straight to 3.4GHz with everything set at auto on the MB, air cooling, no extra fans etc, simplest and biggest overclock I've even had. The advantage of another couple hundred MHz? Minimal in my mind.

 

[WJA96]

Some would argue that E6300 will clock higher than E4300 - but we're talking about *some* E6x00 getting 3.6-3.8GHz where the E4300 seem to top out around 3.5GHz...

However I think this difference is only for extreme clockers to worry about. My E4300 went straight to 3.4GHz with everything set at auto on the MB, air cooling, no extra fans etc, simplest and biggest overclock I've even had. The advantage of another couple hundred MHz? Minimal in my mind.

I totally appreciate what you are saying clv101 - however if the E4300 is so easy to get to 3.4GHz why are so many people starting and contributing to E4300 threads where they cannot get near that. I think we all know that overclocking is an art and that some are better at getting the most out of equipment than others, I just think it's a bit dangerous to say that because you have a 3.4GHz E4300, everyone else should be able to get that too, as all the evidence points to the contrary. And dropping the multiplier on them doesn't seem to help.

My argument is now, and has been for some time, that a DS3 with PC6400 RAM and an E6300 will definitely get you to 2.8GHz. I've never seen one that won't. How far they go after that depends on how good the RAM is, and how far you are prepared to push the voltages. Likewise an E6400 in a DS3 with PC6400 is almost guaranteed to get you to 3.2GHz and there may be a bit on top with better RAM. The E4300's just seem to be much more random than that. Some are apparently good clockers, but a lot of them don't seem to be so good and those people are very frustrated and a lot of people are trying to sell E4300's to get the extra cache of an E6600 (maybe - or maybe they're trading up to an E6300 which is just that bit easier to clock). I don't deny that you've got 3.4GHz out of your system, I just think you might accept that a lot of other E4300 owners aren't getting to 2.8Ghz with them - decent RAM or not. The 'guarantee' you get with the DS3/E6300/PC6400 combo just says to me - spend the extra £10 and get the E6300.

 

[Messiah Khan]

Ok, can I throw this into the mix; Should I go for a 4300 or 6300 if its going to be phase cooled? I fear that a 6300 would very quickly be FSB limited, whereas a 4300 may simply not be good enough clocker. Im leaning towards the 4300, as I could always crank up the voltage to push it as far as possible.

 

[easyrider]

Ok, can I throw this into the mix; Should I go for a 4300 or 6300 if its going to be phase cooled? I fear that a 6300 would very quickly be FSB limited, whereas a 4300 may simply not be good enough clocker. Im leaning towards the 4300, as I could always crank up the voltage to push it as far as possible.

The higher multi will help...

But I couldn't get my E4300 to boot @ 3.6ghz with any vcore

 

[Messiah Khan]

The higher multi will help...

But I couldn't get my E4300 to boot @ 3.6ghz with any vcore

hmm. Was it stable at 3.5Ghz though? If so, then it at least equals what you'd be getting out of a 6300 with 500fsb.

 

[easyrider]

hmm. Was it stable at 3.5Ghz though? If so, then it at least equals what you'd be getting out of a 6300 with 500fsb.

Yeah it was stable at 3.5ghz but it needed a lot of Vcore

I would get a 6400 in your case.

 

[jamrowls]

To clarify

9x 366 / 3.3ghz would be faster than 7x 450mhz / 3.150ghz?

a 150mhz increase of the CPU makes the system run faster than an 84mhz increase on the ram?

I always though the ram was a very important part of the system. But is an almost 25% increase in ram speed really slower than an almost 5% increase in cpu speed?

 

[Messiah Khan]

Yeah it was stable at 3.5ghz but it needed a lot of Vcore

I would get a 6400 in your case.

The 6400 got a x8 multi? So potentially I could be looking at up to 4Ghz?

 

[clv101]

To clarify

9x 366 / 3.3ghz would be faster than 7x 450mhz / 3.150ghz?

a 150mhz increase of the CPU makes the system run faster than an 84mhz increase on the ram?

I always though the ram was a very important part of the system. But is an almost 25% increase in ram speed really slower than an almost 5% increase in cpu speed?

Might be relevant, did this the other day:

RAM = 712MHz 4,4,4,12 (Linked, 1:1, CPU @ 9x356=3.2GHz)
3DMark05 10718
SuperPi 1M 19.200

RAM = 800MHz 4,4,4,12 (Not linked, CPU @ 9x356=3.2GHz)
3DMark05 10783
SuperPi 1M 19.346

 

[easyrider]

The 6400 got a x8 multi? So potentially I could be looking at up to 4Ghz?

Thats what I intend to do.

My 6400 is @ 3.8ghz on water.

when i get my phase back from mole(this week) i'm hoping for 4ghz +

 

[w3bbo]

I'd be devastated if it DIDN'T go that high on phase tbh, otherwise whats the point?

 

[Chris Beard]

I'd factor in the change in motherboard strap with the DS3 going over 3Ghz with the 6300 that doesn't happen with the 4300.

For the casual overclocker - bang for buck the 4300 is the better choice and will get better performance than the 6300 in the 2.8Ghz - 3Ghz/3.2Ghz bracket dispite slower RAM speeds due to the better mobo strap.

If you don't want to go far over 3Ghz just stick with the 4300.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Whats a motherboard strap and how does it affect me?

 

[clv101]

Whats a motherboard strap and how does it affect me?

Things slow down (slower timings I think) with high FSB - so although the actual GHz of the chip will be high the performance won't be as high as one would expect from such a clock speed. It's another reason to avoid the need for monster FSB to get a half decent clock from the CPU that the E6300 has.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Sounds like 4300 is the choice then.

Last question... I have a tube of AS3 somewhere. Does this stuff still cut it or do I need to buy some new AS5?

 

[Messiah Khan]

Last question... I have a tube of AS3 somewhere. Does this stuff still cut it or do I need to buy some new AS5?

Any performance difference between AS3 and AS5 will be neglible. Go with the AS3 if you've got it.

 

[pinkaardvark]

4300 + p3n-e sli here and ninja cooler. Tried overclocking it a smidge but board seems to not like some increments, so just went straight for 1066 (orthos fine) 1333 (orthos fine) and then straight upto 3.6 where it gets into windows but craps out of orthos quickly. Not really had time to play with voltages or ram but i'm sure with a bit of work 3.6 should be able to be stabilised.

For ease and quick results plus shockingly good value this seemed like a great combo for me. Could have went for a 6300 sure but I don't think people are getting better results with them just there's more experience out there.

I'm on vista 64 though so waiting for some better tools to come out before really pushing it.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Just bought an E4300, DS3, Freezer 7 Pro and 2Gb of OCZ Memory.

Job done.

 

[WJA96]

Whats a motherboard strap and how does it affect me?

The strap is the start-point for the system.

E4x00's strap at 200MHz True/800MHz System Bus
E6x00's strap at 266MHz True/1066MHz System Bus

The P965 Northbridge is designed to run at 266MHz/1066MHz or 1:1 with Core2Duo's.

OK - so what? Well, those numbers have to interact with the Northbridge and Memory Controller and the Northbridge also runs multipliers to keep it at or near a constant speed (the strap). When the Northbridge runs out of headroom it slows down to the next multiplier down which reduces memory bandwidth and slows up the system until you add enough extra FSB to overcome the extra latency the motherboard is inducing. I think the LDT thing on AMD's is a similar issue ie. to clock higher you have to reduce the LDT otherwise you overclock the abilityof the Memory/Northbridge/CPU to talk to each other.

So how does this work in reality?

E4300 - Strap is 200, Northbridge on a P965 wants to run at 266MHz so it runs a slower divider until that one runs out of headroom at about 333MHz and it changes to the 266MHz strap the E6300's were using all along.

E6300 - Strap is 266, and on most 965 boards the Northbridge divider runs out at about 425MHz and it changes to the next one up (333MHz) and it actually runs slower because it's strangling the memory bandwidth until it comes back at about 475MHz, which is why everyone says avoid the 425-475MHz strap black hole on the P965 boards, which is why Easyrider is correct when he keeps banging on about E6400's. They sit in the strap "sweet spot" at all times.

The thing is that the E4300 is in that black hole when it first starts up, and it doesn't get out of it until it's running at 266MHz and then it's back into the black hole after 333MHz when it also changes strap again. You're not avoiding the strap change, you're just moving it downwards. You can confirm this by running SuperPi at either side of the strap change.

The only way to avoid this is to run a board that is designed to run from 200MHz/800MHz like the 975X boards or the earlier 865 boards. They actually allow you to pick the bootstrap you want to use so give yourself CPU and/or RAM bandwidth overhead.

An E4300 in an ASRock 775i65 with fast DDR RAM will overclock pretty well, as will an E4300 in a Bad Axe or a DFI 975X board.

 

[clv101]

How does this work on the 650i chipset?