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Easy's invite to reflect

SS-89 said:
Sorry, I should've been more specific, it's early. :p

Anyway, I was referring to the stock levels, seems very low at the moment, and not just here.

Fingers crossed the Leadtek or something else comes back in soon, don't think I can stretch my budget for a pre-overclocked BFG/EVGA or bundled (ASUS) for another week, so I guess I'll have to wait it out and hope.

I'm tempted to just fill the space with a cheap 8600 and wait for the next generation coming at the end of the year.
 
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It seems to me that, for every generation, exponential leaps in hardware capabilities, speed and power requirements are needed for only incremental improvements in visual quality. (Meanwhile, what game engine coders should REALLY be focussing on imho, physics, AI and fuller interaction with objects in the game world, are progressing at a snail's pace, but that's a topic for another thread.) At some point, the requirements for going to the next step in image quality will be so great that we'll effectively hit a plateau.

I think graphics card manufacturers should've been focussing on making their chips more affordable (ie. higher yields and easier to mass-produce) and lower in power requirements rather than ever so slightly faster than their previous chips. Sure, Crysis looks magnificent, but, for me, Far Cry looked good enough! Imagine if, instead of creating the new DX10 beasts, one of the graphics card companies had focussed all their R&D into making Far Cry playable on passively-cooled on-board video by now! Their competitor might've gotten the high-end laurels, but the company that did that would've cleaned out at the integrated circuits end of the market, which is where the greatest sales are and where Intel is currently making a killing! Financially, which company would've been better off if they had achieved that?

OK, I realise this is far too utopic of me, and that marketing will always demand that a chipmaker dominate the high end of the market, because where the hardcore go, the mid-range masses follow, so nobody will put that much effort into achieving what I was talking about. But I can't help but think that more powerful chips are just gonna encourage games devs to be lazier in their coding and to spend less effort optimising bad console ports for PC hardware, just as they've always done, rather than using all the extra power in these chips intelligently to create better-looking games.

This doesn't apply to the good developers and to the creators of game engines, of course, who will squeeze every drop of power out of these new chips, but, as I said above, how much more impressed can we get with graphics? What I;'m looking forward to most in Crysis to be honest isn't the lush new foilage, but the fully-destructible environments, which I feel will make a greater difference to the gameplay. Similarly, what impressed me most with the Source engine wasn't the graphics themselves, but the amazingly-realistic lip-syncing, which added to the immersiveness and atmosphere of the game more for me.

OK, maybe I'm a little off-topic, since the people posting in this thread probably DO care primarily about the graphics, but I felt I had to add my opinion.
 
james.miller said:
gpu's have seen a massive jump. software hasnt.

Which has meant that the GPU market is currently a bit boring and quite stale.

There's not really anything exciting on the immediate horizon as the 8800/2900's currently seem to have most current games pretty well nailed down.

We need some new games to come out with some revolutionary graphics/physics - and then see Nvidia and AMD/Ati scrambling to push forward the next big GPU release!
 
Good

Getting my 7900GTO and clocking it like a mofo when it first came out for just over £130 :D

Getting my 8800GTX and not having to clock it like a mofo :p


Bad

Getting my 8800GTX and not using it 100% because of Vista 64 drivers (still having problems now with some games) :(

Some of the petty rubbish I've read on this forum around R600 2900XT pre lauch :rolleyes: but was also fun to watch peopel get so wound up.
 
I've been very happy this generation, since I downgraded to a 1680x1050 monitor I've been able to play most things very well, (Oblivion being an exception). I'm running XP pro so haven't had any real driver issues. This is the longest I've ever owned a graphics card, suddenly my 8800gtx seemed very good value at it's launch price.

I do agree that there's a bit of a games drought at the moment though, however that looks like it'll be over very soon.
 
Bad: This generations mid range cards SUCK nvidia and ati both dropped the ball. Plus prices are way too high for the performance they give.

Good: My 6600 is just about hanging in there with most modern games. Next generation is coming up.
 
Well the last 12months we have seen a massive performance hike on a single GPU and we all loved that but the novelty has wore off a bit.

We have seen AMD/ATi not do as well as planned and tbh frustrate the Graphics world with delays :rolleyes:

The lingering smell of Direct X 10 titles being just around the corner.....big corner mind you.

Also its hardly been exciting, lets hope it all heats up again soon
 
chaparral said:
:eek:
I must have a special 8800gtx as i have been gaming in vista 64bit with no problems yet....

Quoted for truth

Most problems are actually with games in x64 rather than driver causing the crash.

I can play anything from Valve, rainbow 6, stalker, tiger woods, fifa 07, world in conflict, company of heroes, C&C3, DiRT, solitare and pong with no problems. :D
If games dont work, research more and find out why, most are small fixes/adjustments

On topic,
Yeah the drivers could be better, a lot of "not responding" errors from nvidia still going around, Also in most titles the gtx still seems about 10fps behind xp but that negligible, for me anyway,and does not justify vista to be labelled "crap for games" Some games actually come off better in vista. I suppose they should aim for at least equal DX9 perfomance between XP/vista

Keep it up :)
 
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james.miller said:
gpu's have seen a massive jump. software hasnt.

Very true.

The 8800 series has looked so good in terms of raw performance, it has put extra pressure on the 2900. ATi/AMD is definitely playing catchup.

One area where both manufacturers have been curiously underperforming is the Mid range sector. The 8600 GT, 8600 GTS and lower have been disappointing (apparently) and ATI haven't provided anything better. Maybe there isn't a way that a new mid range card can compete with a old top of the range card like the 7900 GT / X1800XT, but we kind of wish that the GFX card companies wouldn't produce 'gaming' cards that didn't run as fast as gaming cards they produced a year ago which can now be bought for less. If someone wants to spend £75 to £125 on a gfx card, we'll tell the x1950 Pro / XT, rather than 2400/2600/8600 series.

CPU technology means that anyone with a 2140 and a half decent cooler can have a 3GHz+ rig, meaning more than ever the GFX card is dictating the fps and detail levels.

Hopefully in the run up to Xmas we'll see more games to take advantage of the 8800 series / 2900 series.
 
I am happy with my 8800GTS but somehow I feel that there is soo much unused power still to be found, I somtimes still play GT4 and I am still amazed at how good the graphics look bearing in mind the PS2's hardware.
 
The cards are the best you can buy so no complaints there.The drivers on the other hand are very bad.After all these months since i bought them nvidia still dont have a official set that works sli with dx10 we just get fed beta drivers.Im on the 158.45 ATM and cant play company of heroes in dx10 with sli because the textures flicker on and off like light bulbs.The latest 163.11 do play coh ok but i get constant driver stopped responding with those.The latest official set sli doesnt work in dx10.so much for the vista ready.nvidia drivers have been going down the pan since i got my 7950 gx2 and seem to get worse not better.
 
im happy with my 8800GTS :)

running oblivion maxed out at 1600x1200 no stuttering

Unhappy GRRR
at game engines and coders because they are not programing in machine code
so WE have to buy better graphic cards to run the game.
 
chaparral said:
Have you tryed with everything at stock speeds (E.G cpu,memory & 8800 gpu)

Plus:: try with your memory set to 2T timing...(As i myself was getting lockups in vista when i had my memory set to 1T)

Yes i have tried everything. I can't see that 1T or 2T thing everyone talks about as i only seem to be able to change the normal x-x-x-x timings (which ive tried at 4-4-4-12 and 5-5-5-18).

If everything is at stock it still crashes. Its not just the crashes, but the constant games that don't work or game errors aswell. I want a gaming machine that will play any game i throw at it not the ones that it can selectively play.

In my opinion it must be vista and nvidias drivers because the exact same system and system settings works perfectly on a clean install of xp but crap on a cean install of vista.

I'm very happy that you are having no problems but the reality is, is that a large proportion of people including myself are having countless problems with vista, and Xp is simply the better platform for games at the moment unless you must have, hardly noticeable dx10 features.

I am sure in a years time dx10 graphics will look fantastic and games will work fine but at the moment it really doesnt seem a viable gaming platform.
 
I'm happy that I haven't had to worry about game specs for the past 9 months.

The next twelve months could be a completely different story, as DX10 becomes a reality, warts and all... :D
 
I'm happy i don't have to worry about game specs at all, selling up and getting a PS3, i may do another build next year depending on the quality of the games and the hardware out, hopefully ATI can do us proud next year with a stonker of a card.
 
I loved playing on the xbox360, but FPS quite frankly, sucks on it.

There's no speed of movement and lack of real aim skills (halo/2 has auto aim ffs :( ).

Games like gears of war/resistance fall of man, are good but the still don't compare as they are limited in where you can go and what you can do.

Platforms and racers and mates around multiplayers are where consoles are at. Consoles also don't have the depth of game play, like PC based titles do.

Sounds more like your problems are config probs not the hardwares fault, and you gave up to easy. But maybe that's what you want, a nice easy life, no challenges?

Enjoy the PS3 :)

If they came out with a console that was made to use something like a mouse/keyboard (or better) then I'd be more interested.

Lastly, what do you think is gonna happen with games like Shadowrun, which has consoles vs pc gamers on the same servers. I guarantee if the code is written 'fairly' then the consol players will get owned.

Did you try overclocking your cards, or even just try those games with one card. I can't see a gtx being cripplied down to 2FPS, makes no sense.

EDIT: I just realised i'm getting Dutch_guy and Raven_UK mixed up, so apologies for that... config issues are with dutch guy, PC bailer is Raven_UK :p

Matthew
 
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Dont wish you life away for PC hardware, Q4 2008 is a long time to be waiting on something and lots can happen to your life in that time.
 
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