Electric Heating

Sasahara said:
Air source heat pumps make sense if gas isn't available or not cost effective to get it connected to the supply.

But in most cases it's still going to be cheaper to run GSH with gas prices a quarter of electric.
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To note; gas is not a quarter the price of electricity, at a stretch it is a third. Efficiency of an electric heat pump is in the region of 400% so it should comfortably out perform traditional ~85-90% efficient gas central heating. Note also that you can buy gas powered heat pumps too.
 
R F said:
I do sometimes wonder whether electric heating in an apartment is cost comparable to gas. I only say that because a boiler can set you back £2k where as the newly purchased WIFI, slim and modern looking electric heaters I've refurbished with were £150 each and I bought 4. There's no moving parts, no maintenance, etc.

.
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where from? i cant find one for £150
 
Jez said:
To note; gas is not a quarter the price of electricity, at a stretch it is a third. Efficiency of an electric heat pump is in the region of 400% so it should comfortably out perform traditional ~85-90% efficient gas central heating. Note also that you can buy gas powered heat pumps too.
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The efficiency drops with the outside temperature, I've got a rental property with a heat source pump and it really struggles when the temperature drops below around 0c it's got a boaster heater in it to try and keep the flow temperatures up. In the winter months the tank immersion heater is needed as the system is unable to maintain a high flow temperature to heat the water tank. This results in very high electricity bills almost double what I pay for combined gas/electricity in a house that is twice the size.

Admittedly less of a problem with a house in England rather than Scotland. I won’t be changing from the gas system in my house.

I pay 2.6p per kWh for gas what company provides electricity for less than 10p per kWh ?
 
Jez said:
To note; gas is not a quarter the price of electricity, at a stretch it is a third. Efficiency of an electric heat pump is in the region of 400% so it should comfortably out perform traditional ~85-90% efficient gas central heating. Note also that you can buy gas powered heat pumps too.
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Dangerous Dave has already answered this, but.

400% is optimal performance the average performance will be lower depending on many variables, but somewhere in the he 250-350% region would be more likely.

https://www.evergreenenergy.co.uk/heat-pumps/how-efficient-are-heat-pumps/
http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/renewable-energy/heat/air-source-heat-pumps
https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/gro...pumps/article/air-source-heat-pumps-explained

My gas is also under 25% the cost of my electric.
 
For older (less than 5 years, technology moves fast), I normally take 3.1 to be the CoP - so 310%.
New systems can reach 4.0 CoP or 400% no problem at all.
There are so many cowboys in the market, it's obscene.

I notice Sonny hasn't returned to defend his entirely wrong opinion - does he do this a lot? :p
 
Transam said:
For older (less than 5 years, technology moves fast), I normally take 3.1 to be the CoP - so 310%.
New systems can reach 4.0 CoP or 400% no problem at all.
There are so many cowboys in the market, it's obscene.

I notice Sonny hasn't returned to defend his entirely wrong opinion - does he do this a lot? :p
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All of the time :p
 
Dangerous Dave said:
The efficiency drops with the outside temperature, I've got a rental property with a heat source pump and it really struggles when the temperature drops below around 0c it's got a boaster heater in it to try and keep the flow temperatures up. In the winter months the tank immersion heater is needed as the system is unable to maintain a high flow temperature to heat the water tank. This results in very high electricity bills almost double what I pay for combined gas/electricity in a house that is twice the size.

Admittedly less of a problem with a house in England rather than Scotland. I won’t be changing from the gas system in my house.

I pay 2.6p per kWh for gas what company provides electricity for less than 10p per kWh ?
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This is clearly very region specific to be fair :) Those rates do not seem comparable with England which surprises me.

FYI the best unit rates for my area (Home Counties) are 10.68p/kwh for electricity (I pay this), and 3.73/kwh for gas (I am not on a gas supply, but this is their illustrative rate on my tariff card). Factor of 2.86 for the fuel. Modern systems will certainly hit reasonably high efficiencies and bar the odd week, when do we ever see sub zero temperatures around London? Some mornings granted but they are rarely sustained, bar freak periods such as the episode early this year (Beast from the East, where we saw a few days of sub zero).

Definitely region specific as mentioned - almost so much so that its hard to have a fair comparison.
 
Jez said:
Where are you? As i say, only a factor of 2.86 here in southern England.
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Kent, south east.

Electric 13.136p inc 5% VAT + 16.46p Standing charge inc VAT (with discount deducted)
Gas 2.993p inc 5% VAT + 16.46p Standing charge inc VAT (with discount deducted)

So gas is 22.78% of my electric costs or a factor of 4.39. :)
 
Your electrical rate looks rather bad there against a very good gas rate, again i suppose comes down to tariffs, people will choose ones which suit their usage. Makes a comparison like this fairly impossible.
 
I think your probably the outlier Jez.
East of england, gas 2.72/kwh, elec 12.13.kwh. I am actually on a scheme where I made sure I got a good price on the elec vs gas, as I use more elec than gas.

Just using uswitch to look at best deal available to me today, gas 2.89 and elec 13.94

Oh its possible your doing something diff with no standing charge or something?

Of course the deals and balances switch around based on what you put in for usage
 
No, i pay a high standing charge, looking at Uswitch the cheapest unit rate currently at my postcode is 10.914/kwh. I pay slightly less which must be a slightly outdated tariff now. I am not connected to gas but an illustrative unit rate was provided at the time which was the figure above.

Heat Pumps are not a bad solution, regardless - psycho sonny claimed that they barely work - actually they are extremely effective and often used in large volume commercial buildings :) I will maintain that the running costs will be very similar and certainly for my particular tariff and area, i think the heat pumps would edge it.
 
Transam said:
For older (less than 5 years, technology moves fast), I normally take 3.1 to be the CoP - so 310%.
New systems can reach 4.0 CoP or 400% no problem at all.
There are so many cowboys in the market, it's obscene.

I notice Sonny hasn't returned to defend his entirely wrong opinion - does he do this a lot? :p
Click to expand...

care to link me to a heat pump which will provide enough heat for a detached 3 bed house in scotland with 400% efficiency?
 
Jez said:
No, i pay a high standing charge, looking at Uswitch the cheapest unit rate currently at my postcode is 10.914/kwh. I pay slightly less which must be a slightly outdated tariff now. I am not connected to gas but an illustrative unit rate was provided at the time which was the figure above.

Heat Pumps are not a bad solution, regardless - psycho sonny claimed that they barely work - actually they are extremely effective and often used in large volume commercial buildings :) I will maintain that the running costs will be very similar and certainly for my particular tariff and area, i think the heat pumps would edge it.
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That makes sense, typically a high standing charge will get you a lower rate, closer to a business model as opposed to domestic.

I mean't in regards the gas though.

But, you can only really compare comparative costs, you would probably also be able to get some gas deals around the prices others are paying if you were to put in a reasonable usage on that.
So you know your elec cost, but you dont know what the bets deal for gas. Or really ideally the best for the combined mix of Kwh you would use should you have gas vs elec heating.

I guess like anything its all down to design, a bad heatpump type thing will probably not be as good as an average gas installation. There isnt much to get wrong with a gas installation as they are so well known.
With heatpump your more on the cutting edge.

I have no doubt heatpump will become far more viable for everyone once the early adopters have helped to iron out the dos and donts, and the industry has become regulated to the levels gas is now.
 
Agreed, totally.

For us it is either heatpump, pure electric (as we have now) or Oil. We removed the oil system in favour of pure electric as i hated the oil tank and the awful nature of the boilers and fumes which they produce. With heatpumps I am hoping to return to gas style running costs while also gaining cooling at the same time. No brainer here i think :)
 
Psycho Sonny said:
care to link me to a heat pump which will provide enough heat for a detached 3 bed house in scotland with 400% efficiency?
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You would need to calculate this based on the size/volume of the area to be heated along with other thermal properties of the house.
 
My man cave at Rannoch is 18p a unit. I used Delonghi oil radiators that put out a nice heat at a cost. Bloody freezing up there in winter, I bit the bullet and ended up with a small wood burner, I feel the electric pain.
 
Vargas said:
My man cave at Rannoch is 18p a unit. I used Delonghi oil radiators that put out a nice heat at a cost. Bloody freezing up there in winter, I bit the bullet and ended up with a small wood burner, I feel the electric pain.
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Is that rate competitive for the highlands of scotland? I guess delivery cost must be a factor? 18p seems absolutely massive.
 
Rough calculation is 20BTU/ft, that isnt a big area so you'd be looking at a requirement of around 20,000BTU in total. That doesnt equate to a big unit at all, you'd have a choice of just about any range on the market :)
 
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