Electrics / doing it yourself

physichull · 7 Jul 2013 at 09:14

I have a ceiling rose in the third bedroom that is a "loop in" wiring configuration (i.e. a wire going to the switch and coming back, and two L-N-E cables).

I have bought a light fixture for it, but this requires getting rid of/moving the ceiling rose into the loft space above and replacing it with a junction box like this:

http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/electric...-3-Terminal-Junction-Box-Brown-30-Amp-9289783

Which is essentially a sealed ceiling rose junction box. I then plan on running a short L-N-E cable to the light from the box (the light fixture itself will only accommodate one L-N-E connection, hence having to relocate the rose).

My question is, I see myself as being perfectly capable of doing this, but are there are requirements that mean I have to get a qualified electrician to do this?

Cosmic182 · 7 Jul 2013 at 09:22

You can do it if you're capable and confident. If you're that unsure you could always get an electrician to check it over.

Danthus · 7 Jul 2013 at 09:26

You need to be Part P registered, if you sell your house and anyone gets wind that you have messed with electrics yourself you will not have the certificate required.

Saying that, it is very unlikely that anyone would notice you changed the rose etc.

paintguy · 7 Jul 2013 at 09:35

They keep changing the regs so it's hard to keep up but I'm pretty sure that would be classed as more than just changing a fitting, so in the eyes of the law not something you ought to be doing yourself.

As said though, if you're confident about doing it then why not? I certainly would

Just don't so what a mate of mine did in a very similar situation - he disconnected all of the wires from the rose, then put a junction box in and just connected all of the red wires together, and all of the blacks. He was lucky to get away with only blowing fuses!

Took me quite some time to sort than one out...

physichull · 7 Jul 2013 at 09:47

I read through some of the Part P T's and C's and it was still unclear whether it was permissible to do the task on your own. It said if it was anything like re-wiring to the consumer unit, anything in the kitchen or bathroom then you should get an electrician to do it.

This seems to suggest I could do it myself:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/electrical_safety.pdf

Participant · 7 Jul 2013 at 09:48

1. You do not need to be Part P registered to carry out the work. I wish people would stop spreading this BS. It probably stems from sparkies trying to protect their trade.

2. All you are really doing is replacing like for like, which is not notifiable even if it's in the bathroom. You're not even adding anything to an existing circuit, which is still not notifiable. The work must obviously be competently performed, but if you were concerned about selling your house and by some miracle someone realising, you could always use the old colours and claim it was done before Part P

.

3. Why do you need to move the ceiling rose into the attic? With the junction box in place you should just be able to wire it like this:

paintguy · 7 Jul 2013 at 10:09

Participant said:
2. All you are really doing is replacing like for like, which is not notifiable even if it's in the bathroom.

To me it sounded more than just a like for like. Adding a junction box into the equation could be seen by some as modifying the circuit, but I don't keep up to date with the rules enough to say either way so I'd happily accept your words on it

Like I say, I'd do it without a second thought.

Nightglow · 7 Jul 2013 at 10:15

paintguy said:
Like I say, I'd do it without a second thought.

Agree.

Participant · 7 Jul 2013 at 10:18

paintguy said:
To me it sounded more than just a like for like. Adding a junction box into the equation could be seen by some as modifying the circuit, but I don't keep up to date with the rules enough to say either way so I'd happily accept your words on it

You might be right, I'm certainly no expert. But my first thought was that it could fall under like-for-like.

Even if it's not classed as like-for-like, my view is that there's still no way it's notifiable because you are allowed for example to add an outlet to an existing circuit without notification, which would often involve the addition of a junction box so this is no different.

I still don't get why he needs the j/b really, since if he's keeping the rose in the attic he could just use that as the j/b.

physichull · 7 Jul 2013 at 11:04

Participant said:
I still don't get why he needs the j/b really, since if he's keeping the rose in the attic he could just use that as the j/b.

This is true. I could just use the ceiling rose itself but I figured it would be better and more "suitable" (or "correct") to use a junction box instead.

The reason why the ceiling rose has to go is because the light fitting I have will not fit to the ceiling with the ceiling rose in the way.

It's sort of "like for like". Essentially, the ceiling rose is just going to be moved to the loft side of the ceiling and new wires to run through to the light. Except the ceiling rose will be replace by the junction box (which performs an identical function).

Nightglow · 7 Jul 2013 at 11:11

No problem with that.

I have started using Hager J501 junction boxes, found them easier to use than the round ones, plus they have cable restraints.

physichull · 7 Jul 2013 at 11:16

Nightglow said:
I have started using Hager J501 junction boxes, found them easier to use than the round ones, plus they have cable restraints.

Cheers for that, they do look even more suitable actually.

Nightglow · 7 Jul 2013 at 11:31

Trust sent.

paintguy · 7 Jul 2013 at 11:58

Nightglow said:
I have started using Hager J501 junction boxes

My wife goes a bit weak at the knees when that name is mentioned

Whereas some girls get excited over D&G, YSL, Jimmy Choo (sp?) etc, she has a thing for electrical fittings.

When we had out CU changed it absolutely had to be Hager. I could do anything else I wanted but she wouldn't budge on that.

Strange girl....

Lopéz · 7 Jul 2013 at 12:49

OldCoals said:
You need to be Part P registered, if you sell your house and anyone gets wind that you have messed with electrics yourself you will not have the certificate required.

This is untrue. The amount of false, out of date, misinformed and just plain wrong information on the internet about stuff like this is staggering.

Nightglow · 7 Jul 2013 at 12:49

paintguy said:
My wife goes a bit weak at the knees when that name is mentioned

Whereas some girls get excited over D&G, YSL, Jimmy Choo (sp?) etc, she has a thing for electrical fittings.

When we had out CU changed it absolutely had to be Hager. I could do anything else I wanted but she wouldn't budge on that.

Strange girl....

Shocking!

scrlk · 7 Jul 2013 at 21:23

Nightglow said:
Shocking!

That wasn't very punny at all.

Yaayuh! · 7 Jul 2013 at 22:24

At what point would you need a certificate for electrical work?
A homeowner can do what they wish I thought? Unless it requires certification for whatever reason.