Elusive fusion reactors to be commercialised by 2025-2030... Or so they say

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Going by new replies and insights it's pretty clear then that Fusion is absolutely feasible and will certainly be seen in our lifetime in one form or other. It's just going to take the time that it takes due to the immense complexities in engineering along with the process of testing, experimenting, analysing the results and so on. All of this takes years/decades. Looking forward to further advances in coming years. Who knows, some bright spark might come along and turn everything on its head with a genius idea.
 

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There will always be a need for energy diversification. Even if battery storage tech takes a leap, you can bet fusion will still be researched. And still be 30 years away :D
You're still gonna need a means to put power in the batteries, so the two techs are not mutually exclusive. The only downside to better battery tech is it makes the idea of fusion powered vehicles even less relevant. No need to research scaling down the tech to fit in your moped if it's already being powered from a fusion powered grid.
 
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The only downside to better battery tech is it makes the idea of fusion powered vehicles even less relevant. No need to research scaling down the tech to fit in your moped if it's already being powered from a fusion powered grid.

How is that a downside? Even assuming that it's possible to scale a fusion reactor down that far at some point in the future.
 

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How is that a downside? Even assuming that it's possible to scale a fusion reactor down that far at some point in the future.
In the context of providing incentive to develop them for small vehicles. His inference was that better battery tech may hinder fusion advancements, which it won't at the industrial scale. It will be a factor at the personal scale.
 
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Isn’t that how all the greatest innovations happen?

Also, is it a dream when it's already proven to work? It's not like time-travelling police boxes that are bigger on the inside than the outside and spaceships that can travel at any speed up to many millions of times the speed of light while not being affected by time dilation. It's a thing that happens. It's a thing for which humans can build (and have built) machines to make it happen in a controlled way. Making it happen in a sustained and efficient way is a huge job, but it's firmly grounded in reality.
 
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Vehicles powered by a nuclear reactor, be it fission or fusion are very dangerous when destroyed. If you stood beside a blanket wall module just removed from a fusion reactor that has been doing D-T you would probably die. You are looking at a contact dose rate of about 100Sv/hr at shutdown. So, maybe 3 to 6 mins and you are toast. Not great in a motorway pileup. Ok for submarines and aircraft carriers though...
 
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In the context of providing incentive to develop them for small vehicles. His inference was that better battery tech may hinder fusion advancements, which it won't at the industrial scale. It will be a factor at the personal scale.

But why would that matter? Even assuming that it would ever be possible to make a fully functional high efficiency fusion engine small enough to fit in a moped, what advantages would it have over an equally hypothetical future battery far superior to any battery we have today? In other words, how would it be a factor at the personal scale? Both would be electrically powered. The difference would be in how the electricity was stored on the moped.
 
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Vehicles powered by a nuclear reactor, be it fission or fusion are very dangerous when destroyed. If you stood beside a blanket wall module just removed from a fusion reactor that has been doing D-T you would probably die. You are looking at a contact dose rate of about 100Sv/hr at shutdown. So, maybe 3 to 6 mins and you are toast. Not great in a motorway pileup. Ok for submarines and aircraft carriers though...

Since we're talking about hypothetical future tech, that problem can go away. While (somehow) developing an efficient fusion reactor small enough and light enough and efficient enough to be practical on a moped (in addition to a generator and an electric motor and all the control systems needed), scientists and engineers also (somehow) solved the problem of neutrons making the wall radioactive.
 

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But why would that matter? Even assuming that it would ever be possible to make a fully functional high efficiency fusion engine small enough to fit in a moped, what advantages would it have over an equally hypothetical future battery far superior to any battery we have today? In other words, how would it be a factor at the personal scale? Both would be electrically powered. The difference would be in how the electricity was stored on the moped.
You're simply rewording my point but asking me a question? If batteries are so good i.e. capacity, charge speed, discharge speed, then there is no benefit to having a generator in your car.
My inference? No, sir.

My inference was exactly what I wrote :confused:
"Even if battery storage tech takes a leap" implies that it could somehow negate fusion development. One is storage, the other is generation.
 
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"Even if battery storage tech takes a leap" implies that it could somehow negate fusion development. One is storage, the other is generation.

Did you see what I was quoting? Storage and generation aren't mutually exclusive. Nowhere did I say or imply that battery tech will do anything to impede fusion research, quite the opposite. Sorry if I am over-reacting (excuse the pun) but I take issue with people putting words in my mouth
 

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Did you see what I was quoting? Storage and generation aren't mutually exclusive. Nowhere did I say or imply that battery tech will do anything to impede fusion research, quite the opposite. Sorry if I am over-reacting (excuse the pun) but I take issue with people putting words in my mouth
Sure I get it. But that's how the term "Even if" functions in our language. Replace it with "Despite" and it's the same message : "Despite better battery tech, fusion development will happen". Surely you see how you are relating the advancement of battery tech to the development of fusion in both those sentences. They're not competing, but I acknowledge you didn't mean it that way.
 
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No, I was asking you why you think that's a drawback. And now I am asking you the same question again.
I'm getting dejavu with you and context. Let's try and skip some tail chasing here, what do you think I mean by drawback?
 
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I'm getting dejavu with you and context. Let's try and skip some tail chasing here, what do you think I mean by drawback?

Does "drawback" have more than one meaning now? I might be a bit behind the times with changes in language. I'll search online...

...I didn't find any meaning other than "disadvantage, inconvenience, hindrance" apart from a form of taxation and that doesn't fit your post (or any of this thread) at all.
 

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Does "drawback" have more than one meaning now? I might be a bit behind the times with changes in language. I'll search online...

...I didn't find any meaning other than "disadvantage, inconvenience, hindrance" apart from a form of taxation and that doesn't fit your post (or any of this thread) at all.
Summarise your understanding of my posts in your own words.

Wait, don't bother. You already did that. You tried to turn it around on me like I was arguing against the points I already made. Now you're being facetious
 
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Summarise your understanding of my posts in your own words.

Wait, don't bother. You already did that. You tried to turn it around on me like I was arguing against the points I already made. Now you're being facetious

I have no idea what you're talking about.

You wrote this:

[..] The only downside to better battery tech is it makes the idea of fusion powered vehicles even less relevant. No need to research scaling down the tech to fit in your moped if it's already being powered from a fusion powered grid.

I replied asking why you thought that was a downside:

How is that a downside? Even assuming that it's possible to scale a fusion reactor down that far at some point in the future.

You replied that it would be a factor at a personal scale, in the context of developing fusion-powered engines for small vehicles.

In the context of providing incentive to develop them for small vehicles. His inference was that better battery tech may hinder fusion advancements, which it won't at the industrial scale. It will be a factor at the personal scale.

Which doesn't answer the question of why it's a downside, only restates a context you'd already stated (engines in small vehicles). So I tried again, asking why you thought it was a downside and explaining why I think it isn't:

But why would that matter? Even assuming that it would ever be possible to make a fully functional high efficiency fusion engine small enough to fit in a moped, what advantages would it have over an equally hypothetical future battery far superior to any battery we have today? In other words, how would it be a factor at the personal scale? Both would be electrically powered. The difference would be in how the electricity was stored on the moped.

You replied by stating I'd done something I hadn't done and pretending you'd asked a question:

You're simply rewording my point but asking me a question? [..]

I answered your "question" and repeated my own, which you hadn't answered:

No, I was asking you why you think that's a drawback. And now I am asking you the same question again.

You replied with another statement and question, still not answering my question:

I'm getting dejavu with you and context. Let's try and skip some tail chasing here, what do you think I mean by drawback?

I gave a genuine answer. If you didn't intend "drawback" to mean "disadvantage, inconvenience, hindrance", what did you intend it to mean? What other meaning does "drawback" have that I couldn't find online (other than the type of taxation I already mentioned)? The word you originally used was "downside", which also has a clear meaning.

You replied with once again stating I'd done something I hadn't done, then said I was being facetious. Which is also something I haven't done. And you haven't answered the question.


You also misunderstood d_brennan:

D.P. wrote this:

[..] The other issue is if cheap grid scale energy storage can be achieved first then there no need for Fusion at all and renewables will provide 100% of our energy needs at lower costs and higher reliability

d_brennan replied directly to that text, quoting specifically that text and only that text so it was very obvious what text they were replying to:

There will always be a need for energy diversification. Even if battery storage tech takes a leap, you can bet fusion will still be researched. And still be 30 years away :D

You are now arguing that when d_brennan wrote that they were inferring something that they clearly weren't inferring:

His [d_brennan] inference was that better battery tech may hinder fusion advancements, which it won't at the industrial scale. It will be a factor at the personal scale.

You continued to tell d_brennan that was what they meant, even though it clearly wasn't and they told you it wasn't.
 
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scientists and engineers also (somehow) solved the problem of neutrons making the wall radioactive.

This problem won't be solved. As I've said before, physics doesn't change over time. You have to build the reactor out of something. You could use materials that have low neutron absorption cross sections, but ultimately you would need steels and shielding around the machine and blanket.

You could use lead (high density and Z number) for the gammas but this would be almost invisible to neutrons, so you would also need something with a high hydrogen content.

Unavoidably, both add size and mass, therefore making fusion reactors on personal transport completely unfeasible - irrespective of how much you "researched" the technology.
 
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