EMA

William · 19 Jul 2006 at 00:18

Tommy B said:
"going to all his lessons."

That is actually pretty hard... Cricket is so appealing when you are meant to go Chemistry.

Raikiri · 19 Jul 2006 at 00:18

Phil99 said:
At our 6th form books were provided, a ream of A4 lined paper was about £4 and pens cost next to nothing.

Transport should be free in all cases (where needed) IMO.

My books werent provided and neither is my transport, I suppose I could leave at 5am and walk the 15 miles though...

Psyk · 19 Jul 2006 at 00:20

Fraggr said:
It's costing taxpayers pennies, not an extra 10% though. Not everyone gets pocketmoney, or has enough time to get a job, so for some this is the only way to get money, even if their parents are earning millions.

That means everyone should get it. Thinking of EMA as pocket money assumes that parents will give their kids an equal amount of money if they earn over a certain amount. This is of course complete nonsense. As you say their parents could be earning millions but not give their kids any spending money. So if EMA is spending money then why don't they get it aswell?

Fraggr · 19 Jul 2006 at 00:23

Psyk said:
That means everyone should get it. Thinking of EMA as pocket money assumes that parents will give their kids an equal amount of money if they earn over a certain amount. This is of course complete nonsense. As you say their parents could be earning millions but not give their kids any spending money. So if EMA is spending money then why don't they get it aswell?

Millionnaires are probably going to give their children quite a large allowance. Millionnaires are exempt from it because their children aren't as likely to drop out at 16 as children from council estates.

I didn't say it was pocketmoney, I said it was the only way for some people to get money.

Tommy B · 19 Jul 2006 at 00:23

Fraggr said:
Would he benefit the country more if he left school to get a full time job as a shelf stacker, or would he benefit it more if he got a good education and became a doctor?

Some people aren't "good" enough to be Doctors. That's what I'm trying to say. Unfortunately, nature isn't kind to everyone, and not everyone has what it takes to end up with a high-paid job that benefits society. And to be honest, my plumber does more for "society" than your average city merchant w*****!

Does he really need a bribe to stay on in 6th form? I went to all my lessons and didn't get a single penn

Exactly! If you do need a "Bribe" then you shouldn't be there anyway! Exactly what I was trying to say.

Further education is a whole lot more than that though, you need a goal or a desire to study the field at degree level. It should remain for people who want to be there, not people with half minds whether they are actually going to complete the course. The EMA system is flawed and don't get me started on student loans.

Nail on the head, again.

Phil99 · 19 Jul 2006 at 00:25

Raikiri said:
My books werent provided and neither is my transport, I suppose I could leave at 5am and walk the 15 miles though...

Notice I said transport where need should be free IMO...clearly for 15 miles transport is needed so they should provide this free of charge instead of all this EMA rubbish.

If they spent the money on things like books and transport the system would be a lot better as the money would be being spent on things that were needed and not on some people buying themselves CDs, mountain bikes and high end graphics cards.

Fraggr said:
Would he benefit the country more if he left school to get a full time job as a shelf stacker, or would he benefit it more if he got a good education and became a doctor?

Does he really need a bribe to stay on in 6th form? I went to all my lessons and didn't get a single penny

I don't have a problem with people from low income households getting support to enable them to stay on in 6th form if it would have been financially difficult for them to attend without the extra help, but the current incarnation of the system is a complete joke. It even says on the website people spend it on CDs.

ironman · 19 Jul 2006 at 00:25

Fraggr said:
It's an inscentive for people to stay on for further education, rather than leave school and get a full time job.

Further education is a whole lot more than that though, you need a goal or a desire to study the field at degree level. It should remain for people who want to be there, not people with half minds whether they are actually going to complete the course. The EMA system is flawed and don't get me started on student loans.

Psyk · 19 Jul 2006 at 00:26

Fraggr said:
Millionnaires are probably going to give their children quite a large allowance. Millionnaires are exempt from it because their children aren't as likely to drop out at 16 as children from council estates.

I didn't say it was pocketmoney, I said it was the only way for some people to get money.

Maybe some people, but not many people. Why can't they get a part time job? Working weekends wouldn't get in the way of studying that much.

I know lot's of people who didn't qualify for EMA but didn't get any spending money from their parents. Yet I'm sure there are people who get EMA and money from their parents.

Fraggr · 19 Jul 2006 at 00:27

Phil99 said:
Does he really need a bribe to stay on in 6th form? I went to all my lessons and didn't get a single penny

Yeah, but you're probably from a middle class household then, which means that you're more likely to stay on, whether because your parents force you to, or because you want to because you know you'll have a better quality of living later if you have a good education.

Phil99 · 19 Jul 2006 at 00:28

Tommy B said:
Some people aren't "good" enough to be Doctors. That's what I'm trying to say. Unfortunately, nature isn't kind to everyone, and not everyone has what it takes to end up with a high-paid job that benefits society. And to be honest, my plumber does more for "society" than your average city merchant w*****!

Yes, but they shouldn't be prevented from doing so if they are academically able but financially unable to continue in to higher education.

The concept of people being helped in to higher education is one I don't have a single problem with; it's the way EMA is assessed and handed out that I have issues with.

Tommy B · 19 Jul 2006 at 00:31

Phil99 said:
The concept of people being helped in to higher education is one I don't have a single problem with; it's the way EMA is assessed and handed out that I have issues with.

Then we have a lot in common because that is pretty much exactly what I've been saying. I only disapprove of the outrageous £100 bonuses.

Yes, but they shouldn't be prevented from doing so if they are academically able but financially unable to continue in to higher education.

This wouldn't happen if Labour had done a decent job with education in the first place.

Phil99 · 19 Jul 2006 at 00:32

Fraggr said:
Yeah, but you're probably from a middle class household then, which means that you're more likely to stay on, whether because your parents force you to, or because you want to because you know you'll have a better quality of living later if you have a good education.

Thankfully I was able to continue in to 6th form with no concerns over being able to afford it as there was no need for me to go out to work to help with the overall household income and the costs were virtually non-existant...bike/walk there and back and books provided, then maybe a ream or two of paper for the year and a few pens.

My parents were just over the limit so obviously I didn't get EMA...I have a sister who is financially dependant on my parents, yet someone from a household earning slightly less than the limit with no brothers/sisters is equally able to afford to carry on in to further education yet gets £10 a week and £100 bonuses!

Psyk · 19 Jul 2006 at 00:35

Phil99 said:
Yes, but they shouldn't be prevented from doing so if they are academically able but financially unable to continue in to higher education.

The concept of people being helped in to higher education is one I don't have a single problem with; it's the way EMA is assessed and handed out that I have issues with.

Fully agree. If someone wants to and has the ability to carry on their education they should be able to. But I think it's a very rare case for someone to not be in a position to go to sixth form for financial reasons. If they could afford to be at school before, why can't they afford to stay at school for another couple of years? I'm sure you could think of many reasons but the point is it's only in rare cases that this will happen.

Psyk · 19 Jul 2006 at 00:39

gurdas said:
The EMA system is flawed and don't get me started on student loans.

Eh? What's wrong with student loans? They get paid back in the end usually. And I don't think anyone will go to university with the intention of getting a crappy job at the end meaning they don't have to pay it back. Compared to 6th form/college, university is a huge expense and most won't be able to afford it without a bit of help. Help that has to be repayed I must add.

Scott Salisbury · 19 Jul 2006 at 00:53

William said:
Cricket is so appealing when you are meant to go Chemistry.

Cricket? I'd rather do chemistry

Joking aside, I do think the EMA system is daft. Most of the people I know who get it abuse it. In fact everyone I know have abused it, excluding myself as I needed my 10er a week for travel with no change left over. Which is fine I guess. So it didn't do me any harm.

Once I got my 2 day a week part time job I didn't need my ema money anymore as I had plenty now. But I found college extremely easy and didn't do any outside studying. Now I'm at uni, I still have my job and I'm finding it VERY hard indeed. I really wish I had my weekend for extra study instead of working (I'm actually saving to pay back my loan now rather than later).

So, for people who are at college and find they need more time for study, ema does work. I'm sure it has helped a small percentage of people and done what it's supposed to. It is a shame that most people use it as drink money though.

Phil99 said:
The concept of people being helped in to higher education is one I don't have a single problem with; it's the way EMA is assessed and handed out that I have issues with.

Yep, totally agree.

Aod · 19 Jul 2006 at 00:54

my dad earns over the limit, so i won't be getting a penny, however, i've signed up for one Extra AS level, so i''ll be going to even more lessons than most, but still won't get any rewards from going to all of them (which i intended to before i knew about EMA)

the thing is, while my parents total income is over the limit, they're not exactly able to fork small fortunes out for things like daily travel and lunch all year round.

I'm a bit sad over the whole situation really.

Gaygle · 19 Jul 2006 at 00:57

How come i have many friends that get EMA, one of which, spends it on complete crap, (and we're talkin utter ****), only child, lives with his mum, council house (who did nothin at school herself and works in a charity shop) but has got kicked out of lessons in sixth form and did precisely zero revision for A-level finals or any of the two years.

Whereas my mum n dad have worked their jobs for 35 years and have 3 children to support and a mortgage, and i worked 3-5 hours a day for my A level revision, yet somehow, he still manages to get £30 a week, and £110 bonuses (even though he only had 1 lesson a day for 2 days a week and 2 lessons for 3 days).

So, in actual fact, in simple terms, the government are paying people who do nothing their whole life, but penalising people who work...

And the next best thing, he is getting to go to university for ....yes thats right.....FREE!!! doing a mickey mouse course!! when he just wants to go to uni for something to do.

So i don't get any money in school and work my ass off--> He gets £30 a week and bonuses for doing sweet fa.

I have £24,000 debt when i come out of uni doing a difficult course and wanting to do well --> Comes out with £0 debt with a mickey mouse degree and not even bothered about going.

Sound fair to you?

I know ONE person (out of about 100) who needs their EMA and spends it wisely.

William · 19 Jul 2006 at 00:57

Scott Salisbury said:
Cricket? I'd rather do chemistry

Then you are a better man than me, waste of two bloody years when I could have done the lot in 6months. Should have done somthing worthwhile, like an art or music course.

Scott Salisbury · 19 Jul 2006 at 01:01

Gaygle said:
...

It is and always will be the same in this world/country. The honest law abiding working family who have never cheated the system will always suffer, while there are total knob ends who take what they can, waste it then drop out anyway.

My situation was the same. Dad earned too much, I didn't get any help from home and only got what I needed down the the penny in ema. But my mate got more than me and needed none of it.

William said:
Then you are a better man than me, waste of two bloody years when I could have done the lot in 6months. Should have done somthing worthwhile, like an art or music course.

Ah, that bad was it? Shame

Chemistry wasn't a strong point at GCSE, but I did enjoy it. Hate cricket though

alexakasloth · 19 Jul 2006 at 06:55

Tommy B said:
stuff

I don't think that is what he was asking....

OP: I don't think the money that your dad sends over will count, I believe it's only your mothers salary they will take into account.