Emissions Zone

Jono

Jono

Jono

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Today, the country's first "Emissions Zone" comes into force in London:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7225527.stm

Starting with lorries over a certain weight (12 tonnes), but later due to include buses, coaches, smaller lorries and vans.

Do you think a £200 per day fine/fee/charge/whatever is fair?
I'm all for cleaner air, but at what cost? Surely it's just another tax on the motorist/haulage industry?

Wouldn't it be better to just have fewer people in this country?

And will it result in the cost of food/other goods being increased, with the fines being passed onto the consumer?
 
Jono said:
Do you think a £200 per day fine/fee/charge/whatever is fair?
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No, it's not fair in the slightest.

Jono said:
Surely it's just another tax on the motorist/haulage industry?
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Of course it is, we are an easy target.

Jono said:
Wouldn't it be better to just have fewer people in this country?
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Again, of course, but our "open" immigration laws are retarded to say the least. Other countries get away with being more stringent, but for some reason we never lock the bloody doors.

Jono said:
And will it result in the cost of food/other goods being increased, with the fines being passed onto the consumer?
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I think we both know the answer to this one.
 
Jono said:
Wouldn't it be better to just have fewer people in this country?
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No, because there aren't too many people in "this country", there are too many people in London. Why not just ban cars in London, then it would be possible to create the worlds best public transport system :)
 
It's got to the point now, where I just don't care any more.

No tax/law/fine/fee this government imposes/raises surprises me now.
 
I saw some green signs on my way down/across/INSIDE the A40 last night and surmised it was a new tax of some sort. Rather hilarious and as you say, will obviously be passed on. Perhaps if the 'supermarket farmer produce van' gets hit by this then they'll pay less for the farmers geese/chickens/beetroots/pony eye-lids and the other things farmers produce, and thus help to ruin everything in the world ever even more. :)

Oh well. Biggles I hear there's a new tax for people who have Radeon graphics cards, and some processor with a dual core :D

There should be a competition concerning the next ridiculous ill-thought-out/very-well-thought-out tax that will be imposed by the idiots, i'm going for either iPod tax or umbrella tax.
 
It would be nice if some of the media actualy explained what the requirements were for trucks to be exempt. This policy has national ramifications for hauliers and there for I don't think the London assembly should have been permitted to introduce these polices.

But then the Government seems hell belt to stop out country moving.

I just hope revolution comes soon.

EDIT: I've just read the BBC article fully and it says that all lorries produced after 2001 are compliant. I don't know what proportion of the UK haulage fleet is older. Sounds like it'll hit the small companies the hardest.
 
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Sorry, but this is one thing I actually agree with. The LEZ will just remove old piles of **** from the roads, which is surely a good thing?

I'm sure I read somewhere that (unlike the congestion charge, which I don't agree with) TFL won't actually make any money from the LEZ scheme.
 
OllyM said:
Sorry, but this is one thing I actually agree with. The LEZ will just remove old piles of **** from the roads, which is surely a good thing?

I'm sure I read somewhere that (unlike the congestion charge, which I don't agree with) TFL won't actually make any money from the LEZ scheme.
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So all money made goes back into the enviroment?
 
Are those figures correct?

In 6 months they saw 120000 lorries over 12tonne, of which only 10% (12,000) were likely to be in breach of Euro regulations..

£49m spent on cameras to monitor a potential 24,000 lorries a year?

If people are finding life unhealthy living within the M25, move out.
 
OllyM said:
Sorry, but this is one thing I actually agree with. The LEZ will just remove old piles of **** from the roads, which is surely a good thing?
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So what would you say was the environmental cost of a pile **** on the roads compared to the resources required for a brand new car to be manufactured?
 
K.C. Leblanc said:
EDIT: I've just read the BBC article fully and it says that all lorries produced after 2001 are compliant. I don't know what proportion of the UK haulage fleet is older. Sounds like it'll hit the small companies the hardest.
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It will hammer the smaller hauliers who buy their trucks from large fleet disposals.

Most large fleets (James Irlam,Eddie Stobart, DHL etc) keep their trucks for no more than 4 years so its plain to my eyes that the large companies who can afford such a penalty will largely avoid it.

As ever, the small haulier coughs up again.

In a few years, when no small hauliers exist, and the likes of DHL etc charge what they want for Logistics services then the likes of Livingstone might wake up to what their policies have done to the small British haulier.

Everything moves by truck and we all pay for it somewhere down the line.
 
R124/LA420 will probably know this better than anyone else/most here...

So, say all(?) < 7 year old trucks met standards when they rolled off the production line. Are all those tractor units going to be kicking out the same amount of crap as they were when new?

I've seen some 2 year old (55 reg) cars kicking out MASSES of black stuff when booted hard or even just accelerating gently; it's usually a TDCi engine. I'm sure they didn't do that when they were new.

What I'm wondering is if they're just going to be looking at the age of the plate and deciding newer trucks are exempt, even if they're polluting more than older trucks, due to them being thrashed/faulty etc?
 
Jono said:
R124/LA420 will probably know this better than anyone else/most here...

So, say all(?) < 7 year old trucks met standards when they rolled off the production line. Are all those tractor units going to be kicking out the same amount of crap as they were when new?

I've seen some 2 year old (55 reg) cars kicking out MASSES of black stuff when booted hard or even just accelerating gently; it's usually a TDCi engine. I'm sure they didn't do that when they were new.

What I'm wondering is if they're just going to be looking at the age of the plate and deciding newer trucks are exempt, even if they're polluting more than older trucks, due to them being thrashed/faulty etc?
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Your quite right about the clouds of soot - I drive currently a 57 Plate DAF 105XF that meets Euro 5 emission standards, no black stuff from that one hot or cold....

Earlier (04 Plate) Daf 95 XF430's smoke like Ivor the Engine!

Largely its down to how the truck or Car has been driven and serviced that dictates if it turns into an old smoker or not.

From what I can gather, the DVLA stores the trucks Emission data, so they work out from the plate if the truck is a Euro 2,3,4 etc.

Earlier trucks can be retro fitted to meet emission standards, the big boys will simply replace though.
 
Jono said:
I guess they have DPFs now?
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Diesel Particle Filters I assume?

Yes, they do.

Scania use "EGR" ,DAF use a thing called "Ad-Blue" that gets added to the engine to help with emission standards, as I am now off to work to drive the thing I can't post a lot more.

I'll read the manual later and see if I can fathom how this Ad-Blue works and what it does to the engine in terms of reducing emissions.
 
Surely it will cause more congestion with goods being loaded onto several smaller lorries than a single large.

There again maybe thats the idea to gain more fuel tax, road tax, congestion charge etc.

More thieving stealth taxes.
 
R124/LA420 said:
It will hammer the smaller hauliers who buy their trucks from large fleet disposals.

Most large fleets (James Irlam,Eddie Stobart, DHL etc) keep their trucks for no more than 4 years so its plain to my eyes that the large companies who can afford such a penalty will largely avoid it.

As ever, the small haulier coughs up again...
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Won't this mean that old trucks will reduce in price, enabling smaller companies to operate more, just outside of london....?
 
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