Employer refusing SPP

Resident

Resident

Resident

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I need some help


My employer has sent me a HMRC form stating that they CANNOT pay me Statutory Paternity Pay because I’m entitled to Statutory Sick Pay (Call me a cynic but SPP is more than SSP). This letter arrived on day 11 of my paternity leave of 14 days.


On Mon 28th Nov I went to work and was there approximately 45 mins when I blacked out at my desk so I was put on a sick day and went home to rest. I suffer from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and occasionally is wipes me out so it’s not unknown by my employer. Tues through Thursday of that week were scheduled days off so plenty of recovery time.
However on the Thursday my partner went into labour and I called work to inform them that I needed to invoke my paternity leave (again already known to my employer and all the required forms etc been completed)


As far as I am concerned I have had only ONE sick day therefore under the rules would not be entitled to SSP however by what they have told me they have placed me down as sick on my days off leading to a total of 4, which is the point at which SSP would be entitled.


Am I being screwed over and is it legal?


My thought is that if they’re not willing to pay SPP then I have not taken my legally entitled paternity leave therefore can ask for it again.


TIA
 
Have you completed a sick form for the mentioned days that they are not willing to pay you SPP? If not, then I would say they really can't do that, but then I guess it depends on if you want to sour your relationship with your employer?
 
leaskovski said:
Have you completed a sick form for the mentioned days that they are not willing to pay you SPP? If not, then I would say they really can't do that, but then I guess it depends on if you want to sour your relationship with your employer?
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No. My employer doesn't have a form for the first 3 days of sickness. It's only on day 4 that they'll ask you to submit a self-cert if it's less that 7 days consecutive.
 
Then I doubt they have any proof that you would have been off for that time on sick, unless they have prior events that they could go back to?
 
Surely this is just a misunderstanding you need to clear up with your employer - failing that you should have 3 days annual leave and your SPP entitlement remaining I would imagine?
 
If you're only claiming Mon off sick speak to your employer again, if they dont play ball phone HMRC (HMRC will then phone your employer and get it sorted, you'll need the name and phone number of the person who does the payroll)
 
If you get sent home from work sick, then they have to pay you normally for that day.

Did you say that Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday were scheduled/rota'd non-work days?

If so, then they cant really pay you SSP for the days off which you would have had regardless of illness, as you weren't meant to work them anyway

As far as I can tell, you should be paid normally for your sick day, and paternity pay from the Thursday (or Friday which ever was your next day in the office)

Unless your contract states otherwise (which would be odd and mean :()

Used to work (<6 months ago) for a HR consultancy company so I am pretty sure this is right, but CAB might not be a bad place to speak too if you need it.
 
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Rids said:
Surely this is just a misunderstanding you need to clear up with your employer - failing that you should have 3 days annual leave and your SPP entitlement remaining I would imagine?
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I'm hoping so, unfortunately earlier this year our HR dept was outsourced to India.

lude1962 said:
If you're only claiming Mon off sick speak to your employer again, if they dont play ball phone HMRC (HMRC will then phone your employer and get it sorted, you'll need the name and phone number of the person who does the payroll)
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My manager sends off hours sheets etc to HR (in India) and payroll gets sorted from there. We have 1400 employees in my building alone and EVERY month management have to hold a "Pay Surgery" because so many don't get paid right. Simple fix would be to bring HR back but execs won't

TrixiBuG said:
If you get sent home from work sick, then they have to pay you normally for that day.

Did you say that Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday were scheduled/rota'd non-work days?

If so, then they cant really pay you SSP for the days off which you would have had regardless of illness, as you weren't meant to work them anyway

As far as I can tell, you should be paid normally for your sick day, and paternity pay from the Thursday (or Friday which ever was your next day in the office)

Unless your contract states otherwise (which would be odd and mean :()

Used to work (<6 months ago) for a HR consultancy company so I am pretty sure this is right, but CAB might not be a bad place to speak too if you need it.
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They get out of this by telling us we can go home but it's our choice. Even if it's because of blacking out and them calling an ambulance

Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday for that week were designated "rest" days.

I've contacted CAB but I have to wait 2 days for a response & then if they can help they'll book an appointment.

I know this might seem a bit of gun-jumping but at the moment my income is our only income. We knew that it'd drop because of 2 weeks paternity & had budgeted for that but now to lose an extra £200 because of incompetence (at the least) I'm just trying to arm myself in case they get difficult about sorting it.
 
When I used to work (2003 - 2013 before my accident, the company paid us full pay for 6months of the year every year sick pay, if the reason was legit such as depression or worse. I took those full 6 months every couple of years and they where always good with it haha. Some people take 6 months every year rofl. I have been saying for a while that they will cut this down, but whilst it's in our contracts they really shot themselves in the foot.
 
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TrixiBuG said:
If you get sent home from work sick, then they have to pay you normally for that day.
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Unfortunately, no they don't, they have to pay you for the time you have been there, not the full day. And if you have done some work at all, it can't be used as one of the 3 waiting days

To OP :

It does sound like the company are trying to pull a bit of a fast one, paying you SSP instead of SPP as it's a lower rate.

But they are shooting themselves in the foot somewhat as SSP is no longer recoverable from HMRC, whereas SPP is, so in reality, the SSP will cost them more :p
 
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My last job, if you were sick the day before a holiday, you'd have to phone up to inform HR on the morning of your first day of your holiday to say you were fit enough to take it.

Now that would make some kind of annoying sense expect if you didn't, they wouldn't pay either sick or holiday pay.

Sounds like you are in a similar situation. :(
 
Resident said:
Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday for that week were designated "rest" days.
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i expect the issue is, you did not phone them up and tell them you are fit for work, even though it is a rest day.
assuming you didnt then the company is not pulling a fast one, its just the way SSP works. SSP is for 4 days or more and only one of those days needs to be an actual shift, but it covers days not at work, like weekends for 9-5 office workers. Which is why you have to inform work when you are well enough, even if you aren't working those days. There's probably someone on here far more knowledgeable who can explain it better.
 
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Glaucus said:
i expect the issue is, you did not phone them up and tell them you are fit for work, even though it is a rest day.
assuming you didnt then the company is not pulling a fast one, its just the way SSP works.
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Indeed, my guess would be that you are supposed to inform them when you are well (as opposed to them phoning you to ask as this could be grounds for a harassment claim).
 
Jamesyboyjim said:
My last job, if you were sick the day before a holiday, you'd have to phone up to inform HR on the morning of your first day of your holiday to say you were fit enough to take it.

Now that would make some kind of annoying sense expect if you didn't, they wouldn't pay either sick or holiday pay.

Sounds like you are in a similar situation. :(
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Makes sense as you are either on annual leave or sick leave - you can't be on both at the same time. Same with SSP and SPP.

Happened to me once - got appendicitis two days before I was due to go on annual leave, so my annual leave got refunded, I was put on sick leave for the period of the sick note (now fit note) for three weeks and I then took my two weeks annual leave at the end of that.
 
Glaucus said:
i expect the issue is, you did not phone them up and tell them you are fit for work, even though it is a rest day.
assuming you didnt then the company is not pulling a fast one, its just the way SSP works. SSP is for 4 days or more and only one of those days needs to be an actual shift, but it covers days not at work, like weekends for 9-5 office workers. Which is why you have to inform work when you are well enough, even if you aren't working those days. There's probably someone on here far more knowledgeable who can explain it better.
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ubersonic said:
Indeed, my guess would be that you are supposed to inform them when you are well (as opposed to them phoning you to ask as this could be grounds for a harassment claim).
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1. On rest days, even if sick, you're not required to call in.

2. I stated that I was fit to return to work in the same call as I invoked my paternity leave. The conversation went something on the lines of:

Me: Hi, it's *insert my name*
Manager: Hi, You still not well?
Me: Actually I'm fine and would be coming back to work today however my partner just went into labour
Manager: Do you want us to start your paternity leave today then?
Me: Yes please.
Manager: Ok, I'll get that sent off for update, good luck.

So they knew I was no longer sick
 
Resident said:
1. On rest days, even if sick, you're not required to call in.

2. I stated that I was fit to return to work in the same call as I invoked my paternity leave. The conversation went something on the lines of:

Me: Hi, it's *insert my name*
Manager: Hi, You still not well?
Me: Actually I'm fine and would be coming back to work today however my partner just went into labour
Manager: Do you want us to start your paternity leave today then?
Me: Yes please.
Manager: Ok, I'll get that sent off for update, good luck.

So they knew I was no longer sick
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1) you are still required to phone in when you are well.
2) Then as far as i understand you are in the right.
 
Freakbro said:
Unfortunately, no they don't, they have to pay you for the time you have been there, not the full day. And if you have done some work at all, it can't be used as one of the 3 waiting days

To OP :

It does sound like the company are trying to pull a bit of a fast one, paying you SSP instead of SPP as it's a lower rate.

But they are shooting themselves in the foot somewhat as SSP is no longer recoverable from HMRC, whereas SPP is, so in reality, the SSP will cost them more :p
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I didn't realise that SSP wasn't recoverable anymore.
 
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