Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

BUDFORCE said:
So you got your solar system for free then?
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Of course it is not free. But you still see a return on the outlay each year. Giving up capital in return for annual payments is pretty common in life, think annuities. Only in this case the payments are much higher.
 
200sols said:
Of course it is not free. But you still see a return on the outlay each year. Giving up capital in return for annual payments is pretty common in life, think annuities. Only in this case the payments are much higher.
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You could have built up savings and then used the profit/interest to pay for solar and still had a load of money. You did it wrong.

If you have a LOT of savings, you arrange a low interest loan against the savings and use that to buy them. You don't spend your own money lol
 
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Nasher said:
The losses are, the money isn't sitting in something and working for you. Keeping above inflation.

It's gone.
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What your describing is called an opportunity cost, those of us who understand include it in our decision making.

Forget inflation its a red herring.

Your talking about basically a guaranteed saving with solar, it will vary as prices vary and you get lucky on unlucky in regards weather.
But its guaranteed within a reasonable range, hence why in the real world we would perform sensitivity analysis on those variables.

There is a massive difference in comparing a guaranteed cost saving (again this is what the solar is generating in proper investment analysis) vs a high risk high yield (potentially) investment that can go down in value as well as up.

Please stop your just embarrassing yourself more and more as you post.
 
Nasher said:
You could have built up savings and then used the profit/interest to pay for solar and still had a load of money. You did it wrong.

If you have a LOT of savings, you take out a low interest loan against the savings and use that to buy them. You don't spend your own money lol
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Doh.

IF investing always provides a better return than installing solar you should never install solar.
Your always going to be worse off if you install solar in this scenario.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Doh.

IF investing always provides a better return than installing solar you should never install solar.
Your always going to be worse off if you install solar in this scenario.
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Well yea, you are. But its the easy option which is being pushed.

If you don't want the hassle then yea, splash out. But it isn't a good investment compared to what you could do.
 
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Out of curiosity, I went on the octopus heat pump page to get a quote:

"This is a business address and is not eligible for a heat pump installation. Please select a domestic address."

whut?

Spoke to Octopus and they can't understand why it's saying that. They checked the national database and said everything looks ok, but they have started an investigation or something.

I have about 400mm insulation in the attic, double glazing all around and I've fitted some insulation boards on the ceiling in the cellar, but I don't think my house will be suitable as i think it was built in the 1800'. It has solid walls and and still uses a ton of gas over the winter months
 
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Nasher said:
Only if it's fully paid for and has a lot of life remaining. If it still has a solar loan on it, they'll claim it off the value of the house, since the house is collateral. Asking a new owner to take on the loan will result in a lower offer.
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You can’t get a loan secured on the solar. No new owner will be taking on your loan, I’m not sure where you are getting this from.

Any finance will be unsecured lending like almost all finance is. Some may have a deal via their mortgage provider but that would get wrapped up with any redemption of the mortgage in the usual process.

Hardly anyone has a rent a roof scheme which can just be transferred in reality.

Or like most people, they just paid the installer with money they already had.

As with others in this thread, the return from my solar is outpacing all secure investments at the moment.
 
Nasher said:
Well yea, you are. But its the easy option which is being pushed.

If you don't want the hassle then yea, splash out. But it isn't a good investment compared to what you could do.
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You are actually arguing 12-15% per annum is not a good investment?
 
Nasher said:
Well yea, you are. But its the easy option which is being pushed.

If you don't want the hassle then yea, splash out. But it isn't a good investment compared to what you could do.
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Its is a good investment.

Honestly if you don't want it don't get it, but stop telling people who do have it and understand how it works out that its not worth it.
We are beating you with experience.

Plus it would seem ability to perform maths, understand compounding etc

Real world example. Mine was installed end of Nov 22. I have so far seen (as of end of Feb) 31.4% of my initial investment returned in lower bills.
IE I have saved 31.4% vs my bills.

I have had some other benefits, like due to having off grid capability an normal evening when the power went out about 6 months ago, when everyone else around me were going mental on the local facebook about a powercut.
Hell even my gas heating was working due to this, when everyone elses had stopped as they had no electricity to power the water pump ;)
 
bigmike20vt said:
they tried it once with daylight tax (window tax) .... I will let Nasher put his money on that coming back. I don't see it myself :D
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Window tax was a great one, was a long time ago now, but if you look at old buildings you can still sometimes see the result
(many people simply bricked up windows to avoid the tax)
 
Nasher said:
Sure if you aren't having to buy something to get it and wait 10 years to break even...

In 10 years my investments will be enough to retire on.
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You realise you can do both solar and other investments, right?

Remind me what is the average long run annual return of the US stock market? Above/below 12-15%?
 
200sols said:
You realise you can do both solar and other investments, right?

Remind me what is the average long run annual return of the US stock market? Above/below 12-15%?
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You are still missing the point. There is no return until you have made back what you owe/paid for it. So really you need far longer to see a worthwhile return. 15-20 years. Your already a decade behind where you would be.
 
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Nasher said:
You are still missing the point. There is no return until you have made back what you owe/paid for it.
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You are still making the return each year in the form of lower outgoings. So there is a return and it is a certainty. Just for clarity, you are arguing against a guaranteed return higher than the long run US stock market returns. Just so we all understand the absurdity of your argument?
 
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Nasher said:
You are still missing the point. There is no return until you have made back what you owe/paid for it. So really you need far longer to see a worthwhile return. 15-20 years. Your already a decade behind where you would be.
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Thats not how anyone who actually works on investing and investment analysis thinks when considering medium term or longer capital investment.
And lets not get this confused, because that is exactly what buying/investing in solar is.
 
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