England Thread.

atpbx said:
I dont get this fascination with playing Gerrard upfront, he doesnt play upfront for liverpool, he plays at the middle of an attacking 4, with 2 holding.
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No, he plays just behind Torres. As for the fascination with playing him up front, that's easy. Despite a season constantly disrupted with injuries and playing around 1/3 of his games as a CM, no other Premier League player has scored more than him this seasaon.
Ripper said:
I disagree on Gerrard. I think Benitez may have found his best position now. If he plays in the same way as he does for Liverpool he'll be just fine with Rooney.
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Hopefully it'll work but im not convinced. The problem could be that Rooney isn't suited to playing up front on his own and plays nothing like Torres does.

The reason why the Gerrard/Torres partnership works so well is because Torres plays right up top and teams don't know whether to drop off to stop Torres running in behind or push up to stop Gerrard getting space between the midfield and defence. Rooney's got enough pace to frighten defenders in behind but he naturally drops off and it could become easy to defend against.
 
BaZ87 said:
The reason why the Gerrard/Torres partnership works so well is because Torres plays right up top and teams don't know whether to drop off to stop Torres running in behind or push up to stop Gerrard getting space between the midfield and defence. Rooney's got enough pace to frighten defenders in behind but he naturally drops off and it could become easy to defend against.
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Really like that explanation, basically playing Rooney and Gerard upfront is like playing Lampard and Gerard in midfield both players try and do thesame thing and cancel each other out.
 
Downing can run, dribble, cross a ball, pass...
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Hmm, the one I have been watching play for England must have a look-a-like then:p

As quite rightly said by Gilly, not worth a place. I would much rather have Ashley Young as a replacement for J. Cole (who had virtually made the left hand side his own until the injuries hit him.)
 
Really surprised that nobody here rates Walcott above Downing and Lennon etc. He's only played a couple of times and he's shown how incredibly dangerous he can be, I could never imagine Downing or Lennon getting a hat trick from out wide :/. In my opinion he's a must for the England team, pace is something which is desperately missing from the England team. Capello loves him anyway so when he's fit, he will start.
 
jakeke said:
Really surprised that nobody here rates Walcott above Downing and Lennon etc. He's only played a couple of times and he's shown how incredibly dangerous he can be, I could never imagine Downing or Lennon getting a hat trick from out wide :/. In my opinion he's a must for the England team, pace is something which is desperately missing from the England team. Capello loves him anyway so when he's fit, he will start.
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I rate him but I don't think he's ready for a starting place up front yet.

Hope he proves me wrong. God knows we need it.
 
jakeke said:
Really surprised that nobody here rates Walcott above Downing and Lennon etc. He's only played a couple of times and he's shown how incredibly dangerous he can be, I could never imagine Downing or Lennon getting a hat trick from out wide :/. In my opinion he's a must for the England team, pace is something which is desperately missing from the England team. Capello loves him anyway so when he's fit, he will start.
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all of his goals basically had no work on the wings, he didn't recieve the ball at the half way line and beat two men, score or provide a killer ball, he basically got a throughball in behind picking up possesion in the box(or thereabouts iirc) for all 3 goals, took 1-2 touches and shot. THats not a winger, thats the very definition of what a good striker will do. He looks not even remotely dangerous on the wing. he's got the potential to be Owen like upfront, superb pace good ability to make a run in behind, he's never shown much potential on the wing at all though, does almost nothing and just rarely even tries to beat his man despite his pace, the few times he tries, he fails.

He could be superb, world class upfront in the Owen type role, he's not close to a winger though.
 
Gilly said:
I rate him but I don't think he's ready for a starting place up front yet.

Hope he proves me wrong. God knows we need it.
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I don't think he's ready to be fair, but he's a hell of a lot better than Downing or Beckham. I rate Beckham, and I think his crossing is world class, but Walcott is definitely needed by the team more than Beckham atm. My main point was being surprised at the lack of support for him in this thread, people putting Downing in their line-ups ahead of him is sheer insanity.
 
drunkenmaster said:
all of his goals basically had no work on the wings, he didn't recieve the ball at the half way line and beat two men, score or provide a killer ball, he basically got a throughball in behind picking up possesion in the box(or thereabouts iirc) for all 3 goals, took 1-2 touches and shot. THats not a winger, thats the very definition of what a good striker will do. He looks not even remotely dangerous on the wing. he's got the potential to be Owen like upfront, superb pace good ability to make a run in behind, he's never shown much potential on the wing at all though, does almost nothing and just rarely even tries to beat his man despite his pace, the few times he tries, he fails.

He could be superb, world class upfront in the Owen type role, he's not close to a winger though.
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lol, just because he's a winger it doesn't mean he is only allowed to stand by the touch line. Sometimes your lack of logic absolutely astounds me. He was playing wide right and got a hat trick, surely that's just intelligent play for a midfielder to be getting into the danger areas during attacks? Why not have the benefits of somebody on the wing who CAN score a hat trick from there, as well as 2 strikers?

God knows why I clicked 'Show this post'.


EDIT - Sorry if that was a little argumentative, I'm in constant agony with wisdom tooth pain and it's making me angry at everything in the world atm.
 
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seriously, stop ADDING to my posts with what you think I mean. I didn't say he is only allowed to get the ball at the half way line, if I did say that point it out. However he is NEVER a threat when he does so, something particularly bad for a winger. Also he's incredibly timid, weak/small and seems incredibly hesitant to actually run the wing against a left back, hence why he's looking to run in behind or pass the ball away rather than work the wing. he's not a winger, he's never had a good game as a winger, while he's had lots playing the striker role brilliantly.

The question is, if he can score a hattrick, and Heskey, Crouch ,Bent are completely incapable of doing so, why not play Theo as a striker where he's very very good, and play someone on the wing whose brilliant on the wing, something Theo is not even close to. I can literally tell you the ONE time Theo has run the length of the field on counter attack and set up a goal, against Liverpool it was brilliant, I've never seen him do that before or since. While you see countless wingers able to do so, he's not a winger, he's actually not very good running with the ball, hence again more effective recieving the ball 1-2 touch and shoot.

In that game he started wide right, he did NOTHING useful on the wing and got a hattrick when moved up into the striker role. You don't play a person on the wing to help out as a striker when needed, its beyond ridiculous.

You also need to remember thats pretty much his only "great" performance to date, he's not looked dangerous in normal circumstances on the wing, has created and scored very very little and is very very poor defensively, again making him ideal as a striker with less defensive duties. Basically every single last part of his game he's great at makes him an ideal striker and the weak sides to his game make him a poor winger.

if you can find a youtube clip of him running a largish distance with fantastic dribbling skill i'll be surprised, while I can find you a dozen showing him running in behind, getting the ball and finishing superbly.
 
You said he's a bad winger, he scored a hat trick as a winger.

Damn, you are right after all!

The reason Heskey is put up front and Theo on the wings is exactly the reason you wrote, he's too small, and no where near strong enough. He can't hold up the ball against a big CB and is he ever going to win a header? He's used on the wings atm whilst he learns how to become an effective striker given his physical shortcomings (height, strength) and advantages (pace). There's no way he's ready to lead the line at the moment, and lets face it, that's what he'd be doing because there's no way you're going to keep Rooney up front for 90 minutes, he'll be back doubling up as a CB/LW/RW/CM leaving Theo alone, therefore rendering him almost useless imo.

Wenger/Capello aren't in charge of Arsenal/England for nothing, and you're not hugely criticised on OcUK forums for nothing either. These positions of acclaim and ridicule aren't coincidences, they're good and you're insane.
 
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drunkenmaster said:
Also he's incredibly timid, weak/small and seems incredibly hesitant

he's actually not very good running with the ball
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If thats true then Wenger and Arsenal have ruined him, at 16 in a saints shirt he was brilliant with the ball at his feet and fearless against championship cloggers even when the refs were giving him no protection what so ever.

I doubt Wenger has ruined some of his key attributes so I suspect you know nothing about football.
 
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Play who you want - they generally play badly as a team anyway!! :p

The problem is that every other country in the world has sussed out that if you pressure them consistently, they will give the ball away!! :confused:

StevieP
 
BaZ87 said:
No, he plays just behind Torres. As for the fascination with playing him up front, that's easy. Despite a season constantly disrupted with injuries and playing around 1/3 of his games as a CM, no other Premier League player has scored more than him this seasaon.
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That gets a big pardon from me.

You mean, other than Nicholas Anelka having scored more, and Ronaldo scoring the same.
 
a1ex2001 said:
Liverpool line up against villa:
Liverpool: Reina, Arbeloa Carragher, Skrtel, Aurelio, Mascherano, Alonso (Lucas 66), Gerrard Kuyt, Riera, Torres.

Looks like pretty basic 4-4-1-1 to me? really not seeing an attacking 4 in that one.

Man Utd Line up against Fulham:
Man Utd: Van der Sar, O'Shea Evans, Ferdinand, Evra, Ronaldo, Fletcher, Scholes, Park, Giggs, Berbatov

Looks like pretty basic 4-4-1-1 to me? really not seeing an attacking 4 in that one.

Chelsea Line up against Tottenham:
Chelsea: Cech, Bosingwa, Alex, Terry, Ashley Cole, Essien Ballack, Lampard, Belletti, Drogba, Anelka.

Show me a more basic 4-4-2?
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All 4 sides play as their "usual" formation, 4 "attacking" players.

United would start with 2 from Bebatov/Rooney/Tevez, and then play 2 wing forwards in Ronaldo and Park/Nani.

Kuyt and Reira are both attack minded players, Kuyt is a Striker FFS.
 
Depending on who we're playing, Kuyt and Riera play as orthodox right and left midfielders. Gerrard always plays further forward than them though.
atpbx said:
That gets a big pardon from me.

You mean, other than Nicholas Anelka having scored more, and Ronaldo scoring the same.
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No i didn't mean that, I chose my words carefully. In all competitions no Premier League player has scored more :p

Anelka has scored the same though.
 
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Also can we go back to talking about how Barry isn't a DM any more because I'm interested to know who MO'N has got doing that job for Villa these days then. Maybe it's the tough tackling, no-nonsense Stiliyan Petrov? Oh no, it's probably James "Cruncher" Milner, right? Oh god, of course not, how silly of me, it'll be that fabled defensive shield Ashley Young won't it.
 
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