Equal Pay for different Job roles?

[J.T]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42968342

So I read the above this morning, my thinking is if you want to get paid the same as someone else in a different job role then go get a position in the same job role as them.

The claim of "Obviously the jobs are slightly different but to put it bluntly they are of equal value" just doesn't cut it, this doesn't take into account how different the roles are.

Could this be the start of standardised pay regardless of job role? and if so is it only going to be for Woman? anyone else think its a bit daft?

Thoughts?

 

[silvagti]

The simple question is if the women literally took on a job working in the warehouse would they be paid the same as the men there in that role? If so there's no discrimination.

 

[Drizmod]

"Lawyers say hourly-paid female store staff earn less than men even though the value of the work is comparable"

In other words the backend warehouse staff that probably do most of the heavy lifting work get paid more than the checkout staff

 

[J.T]

The simple question is if they women literally took on a job working in the warehouse would they be paid the same as the men there in that role? If so there's no discrimination.

We have no reason to think they would not.

"Lawyers say hourly-paid female store staff earn less than men even though the value of the work is comparable"

In other words the backend warehouse staff that probably do most of the heavy lifting work get paid more than the checkout staff

Considering the work they do risks and physical requirements so on, is that not the way it should be?

Should pay be based on the perceived worth of the outcome of the job and not the job it's self?

 

[Ayahuasca]

Seems a bit dubious covering job roles with things like “store staff” that involves a number of different responsibilities and workload.

Should we start paying all office workers the same as they sit in front of a screen, typing on a keyboard for the majority of the day?

Why are the measurements on this always so lazy? Any credible studies on it show the gap simply doesn’t exist outside of some niche areas.

 

[D.P.]

"Lawyers say hourly-paid female store staff earn less than men even though the value of the work is comparable"

In other words the backend warehouse staff that probably do most of the heavy lifting work get paid more than the checkout staff

It is probably something like this. Wouldn't be obvious which role adds more value, I would actually side with cashiers because they are customer facing so have a bigger impact on customer retention and satisfaction, and they have more responsibility with money.

 

[Rroff]

Would need to know more details but doesn't sound like equality - generally in retail the warehouse workers will be doing considerably more heavy lifting and frequency of moving stock compared to front of house staff - but I can't comment on Tescos.

Also I assume women working in the warehouse are likewise making more than front of house staff and men in the warehouse are making more than men front of house in these situations.

While it might suck there are some degree of gender relevant restrictions on the accessibility of jobs to those of different genders and the relevant remuneration that doesn't seem to be a part of the complaint here.

 

[MikeTheNative]

It is probably something like this. Wouldn't be obvious which role adds more value, I would actually side with cashiers because they are customer facing so have a bigger impact on customer retention and satisfaction, and they have more responsibility with money.

I assume they are going to argue this line of thinking but how do they turn it into a gender pay discretion? Men work instore at tesco and there are some women working in the warehouse. Perhaps the pay should be the same but I'm not sure how you argue the gender side of it.

 

[silvagti]

The other way of looking it is why is Tesco having to pay warehouse staff more than everyone else in the store. Tesco would pay them less along with everyone else if they could so there must be a reason!

 

[Rroff]

It is probably something like this. Wouldn't be obvious which role adds more value, I would actually side with cashiers because they are customer facing so have a bigger impact on customer retention and satisfaction, and they have more responsibility with money.

The handling and storage of stock also has a pretty big, often overlooked, aspect in customer retention and satisfaction - you pretty quickly lose customers if stock has poor availability due to a high level of misplacement, poor quality due to bad handling and/or kicked around and shrinkage for various reasons resulting in stock not making it to the customer when they expect it to be available. Which also has implications when it comes to the financial side if high value items are being damaged or stolen, etc.

 

[J.T]

Thing is, if you take this to fare then everyone would get paid the same regardless of job role... what would be the point in doing the harder jobs if you could get the same money for doing the easier less risky ones.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

I worked Tesco as a student a bit and then did it full time for a small while between studies and research before getting a proper job, doing both front end and warehouse, assisting in managing several front end departments as well as the warehouse and then moving to Tech and RMA returns.

People in tesco do get paid the same for the same job. There is no doubt about it, wage is sorted into bands depending on role and location, so two people of the same role at the same store will be getting the exact same pay and main role pay can be viewed in the employee handbook.

Warehouse staff have to go through some more safety training and are less flexible with their hours, as they must receive deliveries as they come, scan them in, sort them and then store them before goods perish. They have to deal with massive holiday/worldcup/euro/easter/any excuse for promotion deliveries and are responsible for the planning of the warehouse, unlike the shop floor which is all done at head office with minor changes made by line managers.

IMO their job is not really comparable to front end staff. I find it laughable that the article talks about the gender pay gap due to the difference between warehouse pay and normal front end staff, it is clearly just meant to get a rise out of the reader. Surely if the jobs and pay were comparable ALL front end staff will be getting their pay matched to warehouse staff and they would ALL get back pay.

The real stupid statements are things like 'men don't have to deal with the same customers'. Men are on front end but generally not as much due to jobs available. Till's are normally filled with either quite young or quite old people of male and female. Clothing department is mostly if not all female due to most of the clothing customers being female. Tech (which is better paid) is usually male (at least for south England when i was there). So on paper at a quick glance it looks to be a pay disparity but the reality is that the is no real gender pay gap in Tesco for the same role.

As a company they are good employers if student or someone looking for a stopgap/part time job but i am glad to be long gone from there. The company takes a very factory approach to employees and business ethics are poor. Though they most definitely treat both genders just as bad as eachother

 

[Rroff]

Warehouse staff have to go through some more safety training and are less flexible with their hours, as they must receive deliveries as they come, scan them in, sort them and then store them before goods perish. They have to deal with massive holiday/worldcup/euro/easter/any excuse for promotion deliveries and are responsible for the planning of the warehouse, unlike the shop floor which is all done at head office with minor changes made by line managers.

Yeah - often it will include availability to work unsociable hours, etc. sometimes at relatively short notice, harder to get stuff like bank holidays off, etc. etc.

 

[Drizmod]

We have no reason to think they would not.
Considering the work they do risks and physical requirements so on, is that not the way it should be?

Yes that's how it should be. This is a non story

 

[arknor]

"We deal with customers, they [the men] don't have to. We load, we take the stock and we load the stock, they take it off the lorry and we load it onto the shelves.

I bet she wouldn't swap roles with the people working in the depot if the wages become "equal" though would she.

people stacking shelves in a supermarket often are slow as hell, take their time have a chat with a colleague at the same time.

Having personally working in a boots warehouse once upon a time in Nottingham where my roles included.
Unloading/loading trucks.
Moving pallets and the tall metal cages from the loading bay down to the storage area.

You are constantly on your feet, it's fairly physically demanding (we used pallet trucks like a carjack on wheels, not the luxury of a forklift truck)
Often the truck drivers would also get out of their truck, grab a spare pallet truck if there was one laying around somewhere and also help because they were in such a rush to get out and on to another job which just added to the stress of needing to be as fast as possible.
depot staff likely have had to do safety straining the store staff havent for obvious reasons.
working environment is completely different, one is cold, horrible in the winter, one is nice all year round.
There was no time to chat, no time to relax, no time for a small break at your leisure.

how can these 2 jobs even compare? it's laughable.


my local asda is terrible because of how lazy the shelf stackers are.

usually no god damn olives on the shelves, always their cages blocking the isle and no one in sight attempting to stock the shelves.
I remember when it used to be a nightime job paying a pretty good wage.

seems now it's became a "when we can be bothered" job.

supermarket workers are the laziest people I ever seen in a fairly public facing roll.

unexpected item in the bagging area can be bleeping and they would rather stand having a chat or pretending to look busy when you can tell they are actually not.

GET A REAL JOB if you won't do it properly.

 

[Drizmod]

It is probably something like this. Wouldn't be obvious which role adds more value, I would actually side with cashiers because they are customer facing so have a bigger impact on customer retention and satisfaction, and they have more responsibility with money.

Its not just about perceived value. It's simple market forces. I bet its harder to attract warehouse staff than till workers. Therefore a company offers more pay to work in the warehouse. Supply and demand.

EDIT: Also, If you pay the shop staff the same as warehouse staff then who would want to work in the warehouse??

 

[Ayahuasca]

unexpected item in the bagging area can be bleeping and they would rather stand having a chat or pretending to look busy when you can tell they are actually not.

Out of everything you've said in that post my local ASDA must be pretty decent as this is the only one I see on a regular basis, it's usually one member of staff spread between the small self-checkouts and the self-checkouts with a conveyer belt though so if a few red lights are going at the same time it can result in you waiting around for a bit.

 

[D.P.]

I assume they are going to argue this line of thinking but how do they turn it into a gender pay discretion? Men work instore at tesco and there are some women working in the warehouse. Perhaps the pay should be the same but I'm not sure how you argue the gender side of it.

The only logical argument would be that there is discrimination in the hiring process or some such such that women are not beign hired in to the higher paying roles due to discrimination. but I doubt it is that obvious and there is some more tenuous logic. Their case seems to hinge on different have the same value so should be paid similarly but I don't see how they can argue that convincingly.

Saying that I do believe this is a relatively common problem. There are massive salary differences for jobs that are not necessarily any harder or require more skills, and even those jobs that are more skilled and have a higher supply the salaries are very disproportionate.

 

[fez]

I don't know how anyone thinks this sort of thing is a good idea. You look at a job, its not skilled and you have a choice. Why haven't all these women who are complaining just gone and got jobs in the warehouse? Could it be that the jobs are not as nice and that working in a freezing warehouse at horrible o'clock in the morning in a physically demanding job isn't as hard as sitting on a checkout till.

If I was one of the warehouse workers I would be really ****** off.

That case lately with dinner ladies wanting (and getting the same) as bin men. I know which job I would rather do.

None of these jobs exclude women so you cannot claim that its sexist to pay a male dominated industry more than a female dominated industry when the jobs are not as demanding as each other.

Unless you are paying men and women different amounts for exactly the same job and thats a company policy I don't see an issue. If you negotiate your own pay and don't earn as much as some of your colleagues that is up to you to sort out. Nothing in the article suggests that any of this is sexist or discriminatory beyond the fact that more men work in the warehouse and more women work on the shop floor.

 

[arknor]

Out of everything you've said in that post my local ASDA must be pretty decent as this is the only one I see on a regular basis, it's usually one member of staff spread between the small self-checkouts and the self-checkouts with a conveyer belt though so if a few red lights are going at the same time it can result in you waiting around for a bit.

ours is a fairly small store but not tiny like the student tesco express stores.
It has about 12 self service tills+1 with conveyer, 1 staffed till that 90% of the time never has anyone operating it.

2-3 staff members hanging around that area including the one at the cigarette/lottery/paypoint kiosk

never seen them notice one of the till lights is flashing and that someone has a problem, always left to the customer go "excuse me" a few times.
clearly the staff don't pay attention.

the guy at the bakery does a good job keeping his area sufficiently stocked but the rest of the store seems poorly managed.

nearly always something out of stock that I need, how can the manager not be aware of these things I have no idea. unless they are just sitting in the store room somewhere which wouldn't surprise me.

you sell all your jars of olives, week after week, surely you just order an increasing amount? until supply meets demand, its not just olives it's other things as well.

it's crazy how somewhere like iceland can get these things right, not sure if I've ever saw something out of stock in iceland, always enough tills or they buzz someone out from the warehouse part. makes me wonder how asda survives