Poll: Erik ten Hag Sack Watch & Next Manchester United Manager? Sacked. Ruben Amorim appointed.

To sack or not to sack

  • Total voters
    129

Robbo

Robbo

Robbo

Man of Honour
Joined
2 Jan 2009
Posts
61,320
As things are set to intensify this week, I thought we should have a focused thread rather than using the FA Cup and club threads.

Current situation - INEOS conducting a review this week, with ETH set to be sacked, according to well placed sources. However, the FA Cup win could have thrown a spanner in the works...

I think the FA Cup victory did raise some valid questions, are there signs he can actually build a team from here? Has our terrible season just been down to bad luck and injuries?

We will see what unfolds...

::

It's just recently been revealed that Kieran McKenna is set to sign a new deal with Ipswich, he was one of the big favourites to take over at Man Utd or Chelsea.

That leaves us with Tuchel, Pochettino and Thomas Frank - or someone else?
 
throwaway4372 said:
I think he's doing fine, no reason to get rid of him. Problem is all the news will have wrecked the relationship so he prolly can't stay now.
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How do you know the news is real? There has been zero said either way by the club. There has been so much rubbish spouted by the media for years. Just look at Sancho transfer saga as case in point.

The only managers I would accept coming to Man Utd as a clear potential upgrade on ETH are Unai Emery, Klopp or Guardiola.

Poch is a serial loser, Tuchel is hit or miss. Yes he won the Champions League but so did Di Matteo. Thomas Frank just Lol. Man United's training ground is bigger than Brentford's stadium. Way too big a step-up.

I stick with ETH.

Fergie finished 13th in 89/90 but won the FA Cup. The next year he won the cup winners cup and then two years later won the league.
 
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planty said:
If the key to success was doing badly in the league and winning the FA Cup, Wigan would be European champions by now.
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Being reckless swapping managers when they want to build something is what I was hinting at. Fergie ripped apart the scouting network/youth and started a fresh. It was always going to take time to see the fruits of his labour.

ETH bringing in Mainoo and Garnacho and his focusing on youth is what I like about him. He is still playing with players from previous managers. He needs to be able to get rid of them.
 
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With the alternatives on offer, I'd be most happy with sticking with him.

I'm sick of the manager merry-go-round. I want to see a clear out of some of the injury prone dead wood on the playing staff before the manager is sacked.
 
adam cool dude said:
Being reckless swapping managers when they want to build something is what I was hinting at. Fergie ripped apart the scouting network/youth and started a fresh. It was always going to take time to see the fruits of his labour.

ETH bringing in Mainoo and Garnacho and his focusing on youth is what I like about him. He is still playing with players from previous managers. He needs to be able to get rid of them.
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Ralf Rangick gave Garnacho his debut and randomers on the internet have been raving about Mainoo before he started playing this season
 
The FA Cup win - while brilliant - is just too late in my view. We have had to endure terrible football all season, with injuries being blamed constantly, despite ETH making no effort to try and adapt his system. Instead, he put a team out there that looked like it wasn't being coached at times. It really was atrocious.

I accept the injuries absolutely didn't help, and I know the football structure above him has been very disjointed and subpar - until now (hopefully). Even taking that into account, he just hasn't shown enough for me. I think we lost something like 6 of our first 10 games - with a pretty much fully fit squad. What's to say next season won't just be more of the same? Because we won a domestic cup competition? That doesn't really indicate anything truly significant.

I believe Pochettino is a more suitable manager, a better character and he tries to play positive football. He's not perfect - but no manager is. Tuchel again is better than both Poch and ETH on paper, maybe INEOS will go straight to him instead?

I'm not sure long term projects really exist at the top level of football now. Pep and Klopp are the outstanding managers of the past decade, both had proven more than ETH when they joined Man City and Liverpool. Comparisons to Fergie are just simply irrelevant and ridiculous, he was a one-off in so many ways.

Saying that, if the new football guys at the club think with a few new players, ETH is the right man, I will pray they are right and see how he gets on.
 
I say keep him. It is clear injuries was the downfall to our bad season, yeah he made some crap decisions, too late subs, but the things like conceding after scoring, not holding onto 2,3 goal leads was all on the players. He clearly has a plan, what that is exactly we don't know due to him not having his squad available all season to try it out, bar the FA cup final, where we had 99% of the squad needed for the plan, and to be fair, it bloody worked.
 
Robbo said:
The FA Cup win - while brilliant - is just too late in my view. We have had to endure terrible football all season, with injuries being blamed constantly, despite ETH making no effort to try and adapt his system. Instead, he put a team out there that looked like it wasn't being coached at times. It really was atrocious.

I accept the injuries absolutely didn't help, and I know the football structure above him has been very disjointed and subpar - until now (hopefully). Even taking that into account, he just hasn't shown enough for me. I think we lost something like 6 of our first 10 games - with a pretty much fully fit squad. What's to say next season won't just be more of the same? Because we won a domestic cup competition? That doesn't really indicate anything truly significant.
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He is trying to play a philosophy. he has been stubborn and stuck to it but he doesn't have the players to pull it off. Mainly the midfield and central defenders. The ones we have are too slow and Martinez and Varane have been out injured all season.

Watch this and then you realise just how far off our squad is to achieve what he wants to do.


ETH needs handed central defenders and inverted wide players for his system to work which we currently lack. Hence why Antony was a major panic buy as decent left footed wide players are hard to come by. Shaw's and Malacia's injury magnified missing Martinez as we had literally zero left sided players in our defence. Dalot has upped his game as he has gained experience towards the end but it is not his natural position nor how ETH wants to play as the angles are all wrong.

People disregard the injuries and say they are "excuses". They are everything.
 
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But there will always be injuries? You can't just refuse to adapt and decide to lose instead.

Total football stuff all sounds great in theory - I'm not seeing any evidence of it - even with a fully fit squad.
 
adam cool dude said:
He is trying to play a philosophy. he has been stubborn and stuck to it but he doesn't have the players to pull it off. Mainly the midfield and central defenders. The ones we have are too slow and Martinez and Varane have been out injured all season.

Watch this and then you realise just how far off our squad is to achieve what he wants to do.



ETH needs handed central defenders and inverted wide players for his system to work which we currently lack. Hence why Antony was a major panic buy as decent left footed wide players are hard to come by. Shaw's and Malacia's injury magnified missing Martinez as we had literally zero left sided players in our defence. Dalot has upped his game as he has gained experience towards the end but it is not his natural position nor how ETH wants to play as the angles are all wrong.
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I get all that but that's almost exactly why he put his job in danger.
1. Knowing that he didn't have the personnel to play his style was not a recent revelation. Our bungled transfer dealings are partly his responsibility.
2. Persisting to try and play a high press, top transition tactic when you have imbalanced defenders, slow midfielders and only one striker (his stubbornness) seems totally insane

Arguably his lack of adaptability until the last 2/3 games of the season where he discovered a player he signed in August could provide some sort of robustness in midfield is the biggest indictment as to why he isn't the right man. I'm not saying that's my view but its a view and one that Ineos might form.

Injuries aside he could have set the team up differently and we could have got CL football. Instead of which, as Robbo says we endured the worst season of football/anti football most of us can remember.

As I've said before, I'm now ambivalent about the manager. If the squad isn't significantly reshaped then next season will be the same mediocrity.
 
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Robbo said:
But there will always be injuries? You can't just refuse to adapt and decide to lose instead.

Total football stuff all sounds great in theory - I'm not seeing any evidence of it - even with a fully fit squad.
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We never had a fully fit squad this season. Nor had the personnel to do it last season with DDG and a few others. We still do not have the personnel. Yes teams have injuries but what we had this season was exceptional.

Look at our first goal against City in the cup final and how awkward it was for Dalot to get that cross across. That is very different if you are left sided left back.

I also do not think we could have gotten Champions League football either. Arsenal, City and Liverpool are in a far better position and Villa had one of the lowest injuries records whilst having a elite manager. Our league position was par for the course really regardless of how we would have setup.
 
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I might have to find the post where I said man united would rip through managers like everyone else when fergie left. I was given tonnes of abuse and how much of an idiot I was as it wasn’t the united way.

He won a trophy he should be given another 12 months. People come out with arteta rubbish that you could see the improvement. Rubbish, 2 years in he was under fire and sympathy was given to Ozil! Arteta turned that around in year 3 to the point where no one can remember what happened and they have this false view of history that they had a plan.

Same could happen with ETH, sure the guy hasn’t made anyone better but the team has hardly had any consistency. Yeah he’s bought badly but who hasn’t.
 
adam cool dude said:
I also do not think we could have gotten Champions League football either. Arsenal, City and Liverpool are in a far better position and Villa had one of the lowest injuries records whilst having a elite manager. Our league position was par for the course really regardless of how we would have setup.
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Villa won 1 in the last five games. We beat them twice this season. Emery is no more elite than ten Hag unless its the Europa League. He's done a decent job and has been rewarded with a new contract. We will never know how things would have panned out had ten Hag stumbled on a more pragmatic midfield setup but I reckon if he's played Amrabat ahead of Casemiro a few more times we might have had a few more points but we may not have been the media laughing stock as we got outplayed by Brentford, Palace, Bournemouth, Fulham and conceded 20 odd shots per match.
 
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