Erm you view on this guy's message

[cleanbluesky]

Basically. But that's just not how things work, women have freedom, it just happens that some of their freedoms (e.g. going out looking nice) may get them into problems (e.g. raped).

If you get stabbed, for no reason, is it YOUR fault because you left your house?

Also, did you know that the vast majority of rapes are not committed by stangers?

 

[Fraggr]

Indeed.

To those arguing that advising women to cover up is an assault on their freedoms and giving in to the rapists who are the problem, ask yourself this:

Do you deliberately avoid known dodgy areas and take a longer route when walking home from a night out to avoid being the subject of violence or mugging?

If so, are you not taking the exact same nature of advice as the imam is giving to women to avoid them coming into problems.

I suppose the logic behind it is it's all very well comforting a rape victim with the words, "well, at least your freedom's intact!"

Interesting analogy methinks.

They're also free to cover up in dodgy areas.

 

[RetiredGreyFox]

The first thing I thought of when I saw this on the news the other day was that the Muslim cleric can't control his urges. He's trying to say that all men are like him.

 

[cleanbluesky]

Indeed.

To those arguing that advising women to cover up is an assault on their freedoms and giving in to the rapists who are the problem, ask yourself this:

Do you deliberately avoid known dodgy areas and take a longer route when walking home from a night out to avoid being the subject of violence or mugging?

If so, are you not taking the exact same nature of advice as the imam is giving to women to avoid them coming into problems.

I suppose the logic behind it is it's all very well comforting a rape victim with the words, "well, at least your freedom's intact!"

Interesting analogy methinks.

No, I walk where I like.

Also, are you under the mistaken impression that most rapes happen by stranges, in rough areas?

http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/jhamlin/3925/myths.html

Required reading

Myth: Rape only occurs outside and at night.

Fact: Rape can and does occur anytime and anyplace. Many rapes occur during the day and in the victims' homes.

Myth: Sexual assault is an impulsive, spontaneous act.

Fact: Most rapes are carefully planned by the rapist. A rapist will rape again and again, usually in the same area of town and in the same way.

Myth: Sexual assault usually occurs between strangers.

Fact: By some estimates, over 70% of rape victims know their attackers. The rapist may be a relative, friend, co-worker, date or other acquaintance.

Myth: Rape only happens to young attractive women.

Fact: Rape can and does strike anyone at anytime. Age, social class, ethnic group and has no bearing on the person a rapist chooses to attack. Research data clearly proves that a way a woman dresses and / or acts does not influence the rapists choice of victims. His decision to rape is based on how easily he perceives his target can be intimidated. Rapists are looking for available and vulnerable targets.

Statistics were obtained from various sources including the study Rape in America, 1992, National Victim Center, The Federal Bureau of Investigations and the National Crime Survey.

 

[asim]

If you get stabbed, for no reason, is it YOUR fault because you left your house?

Also, did you know that the vast majority of rapes are not committed by stangers?

I was just thinking about this. A man attacks you, and you kill him. Are you to blame for his death? Well you did just kill him but he would have killed you if you didnt.

A girl gets raped, afterwards when the man has lost interest she kills him. Whos to blame for his death? Himself or the girl?

People always like to place blame or responsibility to a single side. When infact both people could be held partially responsible.

 

[Fraggr]

If you get stabbed, for no reason, is it YOUR fault because you left your house?

If you get stabbed for *no reason* (no motives at all) then yes, because you left your house you got stabbed. If you stayed inside you wouldn't have been stabbed. That's different to being raped due to your looks.

Also, did you know that the vast majority of rapes are not committed by stangers?

I've heard that said before, yes. What's your point?

 

[Rich_L]

No, I walk where I like.

Also, are you under the mistaken impression that most rapes happen by stranges, in rough areas?

http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/jhamlin/3925/myths.html

Required reading

Heh you are evidently a god amongst men who walks boldly into the fire..I await tales of strolling through South Central L.A in the night bidding good-day to all and sundry.

And no, not at all, I'm well aware of the various myths & statistics surrounding rape - I don't know where you got that idea from either as I have not drawn that parallel in my post, more the general idea that, like it or not, our self-preservation instinct leads us to take measures, and to give advice, which run contrary to our notions of freedom.

 

[cleanbluesky]

I was just thinking about this. A man attacks you, and you kill him. Are you to blame for his death? Well you did just kill him but he would have killed you if you didnt.

A girl gets raped, afterwards when the man has lost interest she kills him. Whos to blame for his death? Himself or the girl?

People always like to place blame or responsibility to a single side. When infact both people could be held partially responsible.

Has this got anything to do with the discussion topic, or are you just curious as to the moral implications of someone killing a rapist?

 

[cleanbluesky]

If you get stabbed for *no reason* (no motives at all) then yes, because you left your house you got stabbed. If you stayed inside you wouldn't have been stabbed. That's different to being raped due to your looks.

Who says people rape on looks?

 

[asim]

Has this got anything to do with the discussion topic, or are you just curious as to the moral implications of someone killing a rapist?

Seems the thread is about placing fault, so just curious.

 

[Fraggr]

Who says people rape on looks?

I'm not saying just on looks. I'm also saying because people are vulnerable.

If a rapist who wasn't planning to rape someone he knew was about to rape someone, who would he be more likely to rape: a young attractive woman who was out alone at night, or a young ugly woman who was out alone at night? These are just people he's passing by in the street, one after another.

 

[cleanbluesky]

And no, not at all, I'm well aware of the various myths & statistics surrounding rape - I don't know where you got that idea from either as I have not drawn that parallel in my post, more the general idea that, like it or not, our self-preservation instinct leads us to take measures, and to give advice, which run contrary to our notions of freedom.

But the advice in this case is clearly non-sequitur and will likely not impact the number of women who are raped...

It could also be argued that the compromises that are expected of all women would be worse than avoiding the statistically slim possibility that a woman might get raped at night due to 'poor lighting' (another curious rape myth) - and that the mental effort put into getting women to cover up might be better used by ACTUALLY blaming and finding rapists...

 

[crystaline]

I stopped reading when i saw the word 'hijab'.

Likewise. I'm all for a new debate, but it seems increasing difficult to find one with this topic on this particular forum.

The strange thing I think is people actually try and direct it away from the usual but they just can't help themselves.

 

[cleanbluesky]

I'm not saying just on looks. I'm also saying because people are vulnerable.

If a rapist who wasn't planning to rape someone he knew was about to rape someone, who would he be more likely to rape: a young attractive woman who was out alone at night, or a young ugly woman who was out alone at night? These are just people he's passing by in the street, one after another.

I'm not a rapist and neither are you I hope. However, there are many instances of men, old women, unattractive women getting raped. Also, it seems that the majority of rapists were known to their victim beforehand, therefore suggesting that the immediate physical attraction of the individual may not have a massive effect on how likely a person is to be raped.

 

[Fraggr]

I'm sure there are lots of unattractive women that get raped, but out of the ones who didn't know their attacker beforehand, most were probably attractive.

 

[crystaline]

I'm sure there are lots of unattractive women that get raped, but out of the ones who didn't know their attacker beforehand, most were probably attractive.

This reminded me of that one BBC article I read that women who carry bags are more likely to be raped because they can't run away as fast.

 

[fini]

Now i dont know what judge will be stupid enough to say such things. If you disagree, i will be forced to ask you to cite an example.

Actually, it's not only judges (although there have been a few noteable examples over the years), a quarter of brits think that how a woman dresses makes her at least partly and, in some cases fully responsible for being raped.

Please note that the quarter does not include me - I'm simply proving the point that a)he's not the first person to say it and b)a suprisingly large amount of people think it

fini

 

[cleanbluesky]

I'm sure there are lots of unattractive women that get raped, but out of the ones who didn't know their attacker beforehand, most were probably attractive.

Again, are you are rapist? Do you know? have you any proof?

 

[cleanbluesky]

Please note that the third does not include me - I'm simply proving the point that a)he's not the first person to say it and b)a suprisingly large amount of people think it

fini

Very very true, which is why it is so important to counter the attitude...

 

[ElRazur]

A thousand people surveyed aint exactly a fair representation of the public opinion. I wonder who were those asked.

The Amnesty International poll of 1,000 people also found over 25% believe she is at least partly to blame if she has worn revealing clothing or been drunk

Im sure a thousand people like me who dont share that view will result in a different outcome.