Essex V6?

[volospian]

Anybody know how tuneable, reliable, etc the Ford Essex V6 lump is?

 

[Confused]

I've heard it called a "boat anchor" quite a few times before.


Not that it really helps with your question, cos I really don't know

 

[Lashout_UK]

Mmm...boat anchor indeed. I've seen 200HP out of one but there was quite a bit of work involved.

I guess a blower would be an easier way to squeeze power out of it, but I've never researched them much on the basis that their heavy and wheezy.

Anyone actually played with these before?

Stick with the straight 6's Infinitiely superior engine (he says, avoiding heavy & wheezy cunningly)

As standard though, a very reliable engine that'll trundle on for a long time provided you keep up to date with it.

Only weakpoint is the timing gear, which, for some obscene reason is made of plastic/fibreglass (?) - with predictable results.

Most people swap them out for metal replacements check to see if it's been done.

 

[volospian]

Stick with the straight 6's Infinitiely superior engine (he says, avoiding heavy & wheezy cunningly)

It's not for the GT, I'm thinking of aquiring something more practical than a 2 seater rust magnet and am looking at a Scimitar GTE. They come with the Essex or cologne (but I'd opt for the Essex engined version for styling and so on). Apparently they are fairly easy to convert to Rover V8 power, so I may think about that. it would probably be cheaper to go Rover to 200hp than Essex by the sound of it.

 

[Lashout_UK]

Dolomite! Or 2000....maybe Estate

Looked into Scims a while back for myself, couldn't get over the rear end look. I have to say though, one with 160 brake is more than enough and makes a fairly nice sounding weapon!

A rover V8 one could be nice indeed though Or you could buy a P5B/P6. Nice motors.

How about this, in my watch list at the moment:

 

[penski]

Nasty, smoky, hateful lump of iron.

I say get a Scimmy (lovely cars), dump the pig iron, get a Ford 302 V8 with alloy heads and fannymoulds (keepin' it in the family, capiche?!), Borg Warner T5 and rock on out.

*n

 

[volospian]

Dolomite! Or 2000....maybe Estate [/img]

Yeah, I've always liked the scimitar though. I even like the back.

I'd probably opt for an SE6a:

Something like this with a decent V8 in sound slike a good plan

 

[volospian]

Nasty, smoky, hateful lump of iron.

I say get a Scimmy (lovely cars), dump the pig iron, get a Ford 302 V8 with alloy heads and fannymoulds (keepin' it in the family, capiche?!), Borg Warner T5 and rock on out.

*n

I'll look into it. I have read already that the Rover SD1 engine mates up to the scim engine mounts without mods, there's just a bit of tunnel work to get the 'box in. Sounds like a nice easy conversion.

However, I would prefer yank muscle and the 302 is a definate maybe, depending ont he amount of work involved.

 

[penski]

The thing about the Rover (and even more so the Essex) is how much it costs to get power.

Check PPC. Give their editor an email - it's in the mag/on the site (www.ppcmag.co.uk) and he'll give some advice. Their forums are great too.

*n

 

[volospian]

The thing about the Rover (and even more so the Essex) is how much it costs to get power.
*n

Yeah, I know

tbh I wasn't thinking originally of much more than, say, 220ish HP. I just wanted the scim to be the car it should have been. Pretty fast, reliable and a good cruiser. I'm after it for everyday driving and the fact that it's very practical.

Mind you, as the essex clearly isn't up to the task, an engine swap sounds like the best way forward and if I'm going to the trouble of that, I may as well get some real horses in there.

My only issue is cost. rover lumps are ten a penny, but yank power seems to be more difficult to find and more expensive than the rover lump.

 

[Lashout_UK]

I don't know - there's always usually someone on the NSRA forums with a few lumps going, expect to pay 250-400 quid for a fairly usable one. Sometimes you can get them for a lot less, but will definitely be in need of a rebuild but don't shy away from it for that fact - a complete rebuild kit is around 400 from American V8 Engines (UK) and that includes pistons, rings, gaskets, camshaft, etc....

eBay has a selection now and then too - best to search "title and description" for V8 and set the price range something like 80-500 to filter it down.

Also, American V8 Engines can supply you with a GWO cutout V8, Fuel injected or on carbs for about 450 quid.

My 302 was 350 quid (with a Holley 4 barrel in poor condition). It ran OK, but I intend to rebuild it anyway. I've now got forged pistons (clattery when cold but I intend to supercharge it, sacrafice a bit of blow-by when cold..) and a Comp. Cams bumpstick....(camshaft!). I might actually go back to hyper' pistons instead for road-usefulness.

It'll be getting ally heads when I can afford them, along with an uprated valvetrain then , for now it's staying as is. On the floor. In bits!

Shouldn't take long to reassemble anyway, they're remarkably docile to work on ...aiming for 450HP and 400lb/ft with this one - without the charger!


Rover V8's alright, could probably see 200 brake with a bit of work and it'd feel a lot more for the figures. Scims aren't exactly weighed down, any more anyway and the suspension would probably get 'interesting'.


Links:

Brand new V8's : http://www.britishamericanengines.co.uk/

Cutouts & parts : http://www.americanv8engines.co.uk/shop/

NSRA for sale and wanted : http://www.nsra.org.uk/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=38

 

[volospian]

any more anyway and the suspension would probably get 'interesting'.

yeah, that's what I'm wondering about. I'm sure it could be made to handle some decent power/speed though.

With some work you can fit a Jag IRS rear end. It sounds fairly straight forward, but I don't know how much work it would really mean, plus what affect all the welding would have on the chassis (later ones were galvanised and new steel could be a weak spot for rust, I suppose)

http://www.v8church.co.uk/jaguar_irs_scimitar_gte_2.html

That also changes the rear to disk brakes. There are some instructions on how to fit willwood 4 pots to the front too. I'd imagine such a set up should be able to handle a moderately tuned yank lump.

One other thing about yank power is the weight. The essex is around 380lbs, the 302 seems to weigh in closer to 420lbs (thats with ally heads, more like 450 without) while the rover weighs in at 320lbs. In that case going Rover saves 60lbs in weight, while even a lightweight 302 adds around 40lbs up the front.

Either way the brake balance and suspension will probably need some adjustment.

Actually, looking at the weights, it looks like the Alfa Romeo SOHC V6 is around the same weight as the essex. I wonder how much work it would be to fit one of those.....

 

[penski]

Ooooh...The Alfa lump is lovely.

Cheap as chips too - you can get an entire 164 to cannibalise for about a ton.

The issue is fabricating (or purchasing) a bellhousing/adapter for RWD installation; a couple of the guys on the PPC forum are VERY into their 3 litre alfas and have done this to a few cars.

*n

 

[volospian]

Hmmm, I may have to investigate that route. It would mean very little messing around with the suspension/brakes due to weight ratios.

mind you, the lightweight rover may push the distribution backwards quite a bit and aid in handling, once the brake balance is sorted.

 

[Dogbreath]

At least one guy on Locostbuilders has put an Alfa V6 into his car and fabricated his own bellhousing. Sweet sounding engines, though quite thirsty.

 

[vanpeebles]

personally i love the essex v6, its hard to tune yes, but sounds so beautiful. seen a number of early capris with the essex and it sounds throaty and ace. way better than the german v6 rubbish that followed.

 

[IainB]

Get yourself over to http://www.v-8.org.uk/forum and abuse one of the mods...

Im pretty sure someone else has done the same conversion over there

 

[volospian]

Hmmm...

Oh the springs front and back are the same because the SE5 has near perfect 50/50 weight distribution. Its actually more like 55 front but with the lighter V8 I am sure it will be more inline with the 50/50. Shorter shock for more pre lode since the car weight will shift to the front under breaking and you must use adjustable spring platforms if you use a rover engine so you can bring the ride height back down with the lighter weight

To be honest originally I thought it was the only V8 that would actually fit. This I was wrong about as I now know the Ford 302 fits without any hassle.

So the Alpha V6 may fit and keep the balance, but it may be a hassle to get a bell housing made up. The 302 will fit without the hassle, but will probably move the weight 60/40 to the front. My current motor is probably somewhere in that region, and it can get a bit wild at times with no weight on the rear.

So that leaves the Rover. It fits, it's lighter, helping the balance, and there are plenty around... shame it costs so much to get a decent power output, but I suppose if I can get ~200hp from a 3.9 unit it should be fine, especially as they are supposed to put out ~230lb/ft torque.

I'm not after a dragster, just a quick, powerful cruiser that will embarrass a lot of modern motors. I think, considering it apparently weighs in at just over a ton, that 200 horses should be OK.

 

[volospian]

At risk of starting this conversation up again. I've found out that the Jag IRS axle (with powerlok LSD) is heavier than the original item. This would throw the balance towards the back meaning that a heavier engine in the front would be required, so Ford 302 looks like a good idea if I go for the IRS conversion

Considering a brand new one is around £2k cheaper than a rover equivalent, I think it is starting to make sense.

 

[penski]

350bhp ford 302 is yours for a bag of sand. Sorted.

Rock the Jag IRS and a BorgWarner and you have instant win.

*n