EU + Vista = Trouble

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It seems the EU may be targetting Vista: Credit - http://www.cio.com/blog_view.html?CID=19710.



The European Commission has laid out specific antitrust concerns it has about Vista, Microsoft’s long-awaited new operating system, commission spokesman Jonathan Todd said Wednesday.

"We are concerned about the possibility that Vista will include software elements which are available separately either sold by Microsoft or by other software companies," Todd said.

"There is also the possibility that we won’t have all the technical information needed for competitors to make their software interoperable with Vista," he added.

The commission said it told Microsoft about these concerns in a letter sent last week to Chief Executive Officer Steve Ballmer.

Microsoft declined to comment on the letter, which it said it hasn’t yet received.

The concerns echo the findings in the commission’s 2004 antitrust ruling against Microsoft, which found Microsoft guilty of bundling its Media Player software into the Windows operating system. It also ruled that the software giant had stunted competition by not allowing competitors the information needed to make their servers interoperate with PCs running Windows.

The concerns about Vista, which is due to go on sale to consumers at the beginning of next year, include plans to bundle in an Internet search function, a digital rights management program and software for creating a fixed document format comparable to the PDF format, and security features, Todd said.

"The commission is concerned that computer manufacturers and consumers won’t have a proper choice of software," he said.

Microsoft responded with a statement saying, "We have a responsibility to make our products better and more secure for our customers in a manner that respects all laws and competition standards."

"Microsoft is building Windows Vista to provide the most secure personal computing environment and to provide unprecedented opportunities for other companies throughout the industry," it continued, adding that consumers are "free to use a wide range of competitor products, and Windows Vista is designed to respect the choices that consumers make."

Microsoft said it has included partners and competitors in its planning of Windows Vista, to allow them to build products and services that work with the new operating system.

Keeping the industry and regulators informed of its product development plans "has been, and will remain a priority," Microsoft said.

No formal investigation has been opened yet, but Todd said, "If our concerns are confirmed and we conclude that Vista violated European competition rules, then we would open a new case."

Todd was responding to questions prompted by comments made by Competition Commissioner Neelie Kroes in an interview in The Wall Street Journal Europe Wednesday.

"We expect that Microsoft will design Vista in a way which is in line with the European competition laws," Kroes said in the interview. "It would be rather stupid to design something that is not," she said.

Kroes wrote a letter to Ballmer at the beginning of last week, detailing the commission’s specific concerns about Vista.

"Microsoft asked us what could be problematic with Vista, so we told them," Todd said.

The warning about Vista comes a day before Microsoft’s top lawyers gather with regulators and rivals at a Brussels hearing about the company’s compliance with the 2004 ruling.

In December, the commission issued a new lawsuit against Microsoft, accusing it of failing to honor the 2004 ruling. Microsoft requested the hearing so that it could refute the commission’s accusation and explain to regulators that it is in compliance with the ruling.

If Microsoft fails to change the commission’s mind, it faces daily fines of up to €2 million until it is deemed to be in compliance with the 2004 ruling.
 
FFS. Im sick of the EU picking on Microsoft. Just because they have done some good things and now are running Windows on most pcs in the world, why should they get random fines etc. for little petty things. I mean the WMP rulings. Windows is there for people who aren't that computer-literate and wanted most, if not everything in one simple to use OS!
 
Scythe said:
FFS. Im sick of the EU picking on Microsoft. Just because they have done some good things and now are running Windows on most pcs in the world, why should they get random fines etc. for little petty things. I mean the WMP rulings. Windows is there for people who aren't that computer-literate and wanted most, if not everything in one simple to use OS!

True, but I wonder what would happen if WMP was fully uninstallable?

I also wonder what happens to the Defrag utility that comes with Windows too. I don't have too much of a problem with Microsoft bundling stuff with it's O/S because if I don't like it then I'll use something else like Firefox, Windows Media PLayer Classic, Perfect Disk and so on. My problem is that some things you can't uninstall from the O/S.

I'm not sure though why Windows should have a PDF thingy. I would have thought that could come with the Office suite of programs.
 
They're going to end-up killing XP off. Why? Because some small, pathetic company wants a chance.

If that small, pathetic company's products are so good, I'll buy them and install them in place of the Window's default programs.

By all means ask users if they want to install certain products. But don't starve them of tools and programs. :eek::(
 
This will be fun. Watching the EU say to Microsoft "sorry you're not allowed to add good security to your OS because it hurts third party security companies" is a definate pop corn moment :D

Atomic said:
I'm not sure though why Windows should have a PDF thingy.
Why not? PDF is rubbish compared to what Microsoft is cooking up.
 
but when you buy windows, you're paying for all the stuff you dont use and all the flowery stuff.

Imagine the barest of os, would it not be easier to make secure and cheaper, then how about a stand alone browser, again easier to make secure, same goes for media player etc.

Imagine the bare os and free mp and ie downloads at ms, ms dominate the market too much which is no good for anyone, ms dont have to impress the customers, just the stock markets, its very unhealthy.
 
Slam62 said:
Imagine the barest of os, would it not be easier to make secure and cheaper, then how about a stand alone browser, again easier to make secure, same goes for media player etc.
IE7 is standalone. They've debundled it because they need to react more quickly to market demands. And they cannot do that whilst it is tied to the OS which requires 100x more testing/validation.
 
NathanE said:
This will be fun. Watching the EU say to Microsoft "sorry you're not allowed to add good security to your OS because it hurts third party security companies" is a definate pop corn moment :D

Why not? PDF is rubbish compared to what Microsoft is cooking up.

What about fixing the code to prevent the security risks, rarther than bundle products or sell a "One Care" product.
 
Anyone else wonder why the EU does not apply the same venom against Real.com as their player really takes the mick when it keeps trying to set your default file types to the realplayer unless you uncheck a few options then everytime you go back into the options it resets it again to trick you into using their player.

Also installs software for auto updates which should be considered spyware as well!

Same with Adobe for some of their acrobat readers yet no-one bats an eyelid or Starforce with their OTT ring1 system level drivers!
 
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Scythe said:
Windows is there for people who aren't that computer-literate and wanted most, if not everything in one simple to use OS!

Uhmm... I would say thats what Macs are for.
 
Xee said:
Uhmm... I would say thats what Macs are for.
but macs dont have the biggest market share for home users for when it comes to OS'es?
also that would depend on the users opinions, there isnt a definative "best user friendly os"
 
Anyone else wonder why the EU does not apply the same venom against Real.com as their player really takes the mick when it keeps trying to set your default file types to the realplayer unless you uncheck a few options then everytime you go back into the options it resets it again to trick you into using their player.

I am well with you on that one. Realplayer annoyed me too much a while back and I now consider it more damaging and disruptive then a virus. Which is ammusing seeing as whenever anyone I know instals it now their windows dies and needs reinstalling :)
 
oxygene said:
I am well with you on that one. Realplayer annoyed me too much a while back and I now consider it more damaging and disruptive then a virus. Which is ammusing seeing as whenever anyone I know instals it now their windows dies and needs reinstalling :)
windows user with realplayer installed here working ;)
i'll admit i dont really use it, it was only installed encase i needed it. it does p me off also with it wanting to takeover file types, also the ads and that :mad:
i reckon real.com arent being "slammed" probably because they arent providing a OS and real together unlike Microsoft. MS should just make IE/WMP all uninstallable so that basic windows is installed. would certainly cause less crashes sometimes and security holes :p
 
AWPC said:
Anyone else wonder why the EU does not apply the same venom against Real.com as their player really takes the mick when it keeps trying to set your default file types to the realplayer unless you uncheck a few options then everytime you go back into the options it resets it again to trick you into using their player.

Also installs software for auto updates which should be considered spyware as well!

Same with Adobe for some of their acrobat readers yet no-one bats an eyelid or Starforce with their OTT ring1 system level drivers!

RealPlayer gives you the option to turn all this off when you're installing it, at the login screen when you're confirming your address details. This includes desktop messages/adverts. Personally my install of RealPlayer doesn't want to keep default file types and sits nicely installed without any problems. I have turned off auto-updates as well, although can you provide a link about the "spyware" Real.com wants to install?

Adobe, again I can turn off the auto-update feature quite easily and they have opened up the PDF format. Microsoft are not responsible for Starforce copy-protection and gamers seem to accept it at the moment, after all they're buying the games.

Many of the applications that are default in Windows cannot be removed without going through third-party applications (e.g. nLite), if at all. They also have a track record of breaking competitors applications.

My view on this is that Microsoft tried to prove themselves bigger than the EU governments and got caught out. Now they're trying to have a PR campaign against the EU that isn't working either as business will just switch to an alternative if the keep carrying on as they have done. If they provided us with an uninstall option in the first place none of this would have happened.

And another thing, while they were getting investigated over Windows XP by the US government they managed to put out XP and we all know how popular that is.
 
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So this is going to be like the MS works debacle where the EU banned microsoft from bundeling it with new PC's in the name of competition and consumer choice. End result? Everyone then has to spend extra money buying the software that used to come free with the pc. :rolleyes:

Isn't it just me but the most annoying part of reinstalling is installing all the other programs, if they are in vista dont take them out,maybe have an optoin to uninstall them but let them be installed in the first place. WMP i find is by far better than all the others ive tried (winamp, MPC, itunes) and doesnt have any blotware in it, luckily they havent removed it like they were supposed to. What about people who only have a modem or no net connecion whatsoever, if most of the standard stuff was deleted they wouldnt be able to use the computer unless they went out and bought programs.
 
afraser2k said:
They also have a track record of breaking competitors applications.
They do? :confused:

afraser2k said:
My view on this is that Microsoft tried to prove themselves bigger than the EU governments and got caught out
I'm glad that's just your view :p Microsoft aren't trying "prove" anything. They are being bullied by the EU (as well as loads of smaller companies, like Real Networks) because there is free money in it. Nothing more, nothing less. Real Networks got a pay out to the tune of £500m last year... for a company of their size that has effectively ensured their upkeep for the next decade or two. Their executives are probably still in Hawaii right now...
 
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I really don't get it. Penalising MS for providing free bundled software with their OS seems bizzare. Are they gonna apply this twisted logic to the rest of windows' programs. Should MS stop supplying an OS with defrag tools, instant messenging, email, and hey maybe even a web browser (then people could choose their own browser - but unfortunatley won't be able to browse the web to find one!).

Think about how many tools are part of windows that other companies also make. Can MS be expected to remove all of them just so they are not 'monopolising' the market. Hell their are companies that make different visual interfaces for windows, so maybe MS should just offer a command line interface so as not to intrude on their business, and then people can buy their own interface.
 
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