Eurgh... I dunno. What would you do?

Diddums

Diddums

Diddums

Caporegime
Joined
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Godalming
I'll try keep this as short as I can.


Due to restructuring in the business, we lost an electrician and instead an opening was made for a "plant attendant" (basically an assistant to help the other engineers).

In January we employed someone who is a life long friend of someone in the company. Their personal relationship has absolutely no bearing on their professional relationship, they handle that very well.

This chap is 55 years old, has a defect in his leg which he's had since birth which means (and I mean absolutely no offense when I say this) he "wobbles" a bit when he walks. Havign had him in employment for numerous months now, we haev come to the conclusion that he has a mental disability as well, in that he thinks like a child and nothing we tell him sinks in. He says things to people which you simply can not say, things which make the company and management look bad and he doesn't realise the implications of what he says.

We've spoken to him numerous times about it and he just can't grasp it. We've also told him to stay out of client areas as he has no business there but because he wants to be seen to be trying, he still changes lamps and whatnot in client areas. Now these people pay hundreds of thousands of pounds a year to have these maintenance contracts, the last thing they want to see is a disabled man walking around with a ladder. It makes us look bad as a company because he shouldn't be doing any lifting or working at heights. We haev told him this numerous times, and yet he still does it. This morning I caught him on a ladder and lost my cool a bit, so it'll be fine for a week or so and then it's back to sqare one.

He also dropped a nuke on us this morning during a conversation with his doctor. There's a lot of backstory behind his leg and the issues he's having and I'll gladly explain if needed but this is just to give you an idea of what we're dealing with. He's also broken lamps, light fittings, he's given us our first RIDDOR incident ever, he's basically a liability.

NOW!


The guy's heart is in the right place, he's the most keen, most enthusiastic person we have on the books, he's never late, never been sick, never says no (which is also a problem) and he's told me that this is the most money he's ever earned due to his disability. I know he's looking to get married and get on with life so he's a really good guy who's in the wrong job and is in over his head.

From a business point of view, I have no case to keep him on. Nothing. I could find someone else for this role who would be a million times more useful but I don't have the heart to get rid of him because I know how much this job means to him and how proud he is. We *can* work around his disability and restrictions which is what we'ev been doing, but this morning he really put a shotgun to the company's head and almost pulled the trigger (not intentionally, he struggles to get his words out and said something wrong which could open a can of worms no company should have to deal with).

I'm at a loss. My brain is going "get rid" and my heart is going "never, it'll destroy him".

So, people of the internet, what would you do?
 
You know what you've got to do.

At the end of the day it's a business and a business based decision, it sounds like looking at this from a nice friendly point of view could really bite you in the behind very soon.
 
Ultimately if he shouldn't be working on ladders and is that is a much bigger health and safety issue - eventually that is gonna have to go down the road of disciplinary action but doesn't sound like that would sink in.

TBH only road I can really see is going down the disciplinary route and hoping it sinks in before it gets to the point of getting rid of him.
 
You either bite the bullet now and get rid, or you give him one more shot, formal documented warning explaining what he is and isn't allowed to do, explaining that should he go against what has been agreed, for whatever reason, you'll be forced to let him go.
 
If you were aware of his disability and believed his condition prevents him from safely doing the job, but continued to let him do it anyway.... then you're now guilty under the Management of H&S at Work Regs 1999 ;)

Make it specifically clear that he should not be working at height, give him alternate duties and risk assess the task. If you want to get rid of him then take it down the disciplinary route, if he breaches this. FYI, he could be breaching Section 7 of H&S at Work Act 1974 by "not looking after yourself" if he knowingly does what he knows he isn't permitted to do under the risk assessment. This is technically a criminal offence and could be grounds for instant dismissal, but realistically you'd be better off just using it to form an official warning.

You have to realise that he could injure himself quite seriously, even though he has good intentions. This is where the company comes in to the firing line, should he take you to court in a civil claim. It shouldn't be about getting rid of him, unless you physically can't give him alternate work or he breaches the condition of his employment.
 
I didn't employ him, I had no say in the matter at all, but I've since been promoted so he's now my problem.

Some great advice there, thanks EVH. His wellbeing is our no. 1 priority which is why I'm not letting him do these things in the first place.
 
At the end of the day if he's using ladders and his disabilities means he isn;t meant to use the ladders, he is going against company policy and H&S regs.

If I was to do something like that where I work, I'd get shafted.
 
It's not as unusual a situation as you might think.

Put him on a PIP, as the issues need to be resolved, and when used correctly PIP's are good for both the business and employee.
 
Yeah, you guys are right. To be honest it'll break my heart to get rid of him, but I do fear that if we don't do something, there will be a RIDDOR incident and my job on the line eventually.
 
Aren't you legally responsible to deal with any potential risks to Health & Safety?

What if he does something that ends his life or someone else's, it is going to come back on you. Either PIP him or see if his actions fall under gross misconduct and sack him.

Doesn't matter how nice he is, it's not worth a fine and prison time if the worst happens.
 
Thekwango said:
is this the same problem you were facing here

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18727724

still not resolved it?! is his life long friend (your manager I believe, still with the company?) is it going to be any easier getting rid now than it was back then?
Click to expand...

Yep, that's the guy. The situation has changed a lot since then, I've now taken him on board and am trying to train him up a bit, my manager has written him off, I get on well with everyone now, really feeling like a team.

That said, a bit more thought this evening. I've decided I'm going to email my manager and his manager and put my concerns in writing. I'm going to suggest he be sent on some safety awareness courses over and above the default one we do, recommend we put a solid system in place with what he can and can't do and put it in writing. The ball's then in their court legally and if they decide to get shot then my conscience is clear but if they keep him and it does go wrong, I'll have written evidence covering myself.

I feel I should explain this guy a bit more to give you guys a bit more of a clearer picture and why I don't want to just sack him off. He's 55 / 56, a single father of two sons, has a physical disability and I suspect a small mental one too, he was unemployed for 12 years before joining us, he's openly told me that this is the most money he's ever earned and a few weeks ago he was telling me how proud he is to have paid off all his debt this late in life. I get the impression that he'd all but given up on himself before he joined us, he'd written himself off and this job has given him that spark of light, that hope that we all need sometimes. He spends time with his sons sometimes and comes in to the workshop gleaming for days afterwards. He's a very proud father and always tells us how much he loves his kids. He added me on Facebook today and all his photos are of him with his sons, looking all proud. I know this sounds a bit emo but as someone who had a father who wanted nothing to do with me, I don't want to be the one who makes this man go home and tell his boys he's been sacked. I just don't have it in me, and disabilities and clumsiness aside, he doesn't deserve it either.


We'll see. I'll take the approach I just wrote out above and update you guys when I have more news :)
 
In all honesty man it's a pretty clear what the right decision is and if you're unable to make it then you're not doing your job correctly.
Not only are you putting him at risk you're being neglectful as you know he's never going to change and at some point he's likely to hurt himself and maybe others around him.

I genuinely don't mean this in a nasty way but grow some balls and make the decision. It's a tough one yes, but take your own feelings out of this and do what you're paid to do.
 
So you are his line manager now or just someone told to look after him?

If you're his manager, make it crystal clear what he can't and can do and maybe put it in writing as well. Might be worth stating if he doesn't follow these rules he may be sacked.
 
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Diddums said:
Yeah, you guys are right. To be honest it'll break my heart to get rid of him, but I do fear that if we don't do something, there will be a RIDDOR incident and my job on the line eventually.
Click to expand...

RIDDOR is nothing, in the grand scheme. I've investigated 4 this week and most were minor ;)

It's the long term injury or ill health that he (or someone else) could suffer as a results of his acts or omissions which concerns me. He could be putting himself under pressure to do a job which he physically shouldn't do which is increasing the risk. If he falls from the ladder and breaks his back (realistic given his stability) then you can bet your house he'll make a six figure claim. Family man, friend or neither.

Sorry to go all H&S in this thread but want to give you my professional advice. Working at height regs are some of only 6 regs which specifically require a risk assessment to be completed. Start by checking what your risk assessment says, agree his limitations with him (get a GP note preferably as he may over egg things) and put it all in writing.

Nothing wrong with doing the lowest paid jobs, but they should be done correctly. I'm sure you could phrase it in such a way that you'd rather see him grow old with his children than in a wheelchair because of a fall etc. It may make him more likely to comply.
 
I'd honestly get a written list of what he can/can't and should/shouldn't do and get him to sign/agree to it.
Ultimately, if he brings the company into disrepute or annoys your clients in anyway, you'll end up in a worse position than before anyway.

Possibly get a proper skills audit done, try and find out what ways it takes to train the guy up to do different skills (Show him ordering but get him to write down all steps/spend half a (quiet) day taking screenshot of the software for a "How to guide"?)
 
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