European Grand Prix 2012, Valencia - Race 8/20

Kenai said:
Be that as it may, it doesn't change the fact that Button's fastest lap today was only .150 slower than Hamilton's. His problem was just that he achieved it in the wrong session.

He had the pace, he just didn't get it done in Q3.

(Do you think one day you could possibly endeavour to make your points concisely? :p)
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Sure to sum up you're saying the only problem Button had today was his fastest lap was slower than Hamilton's fastest lap, and that Hamilton can consistently put in fastest laps while Button can't.

Yes, I agree, that's what a lot of people have been saying for three years, his best is slower, he's not consistently capable of putting in those best laps, he's not as good a driver, I agree completely ;)

The Button excusers have blamed the car, the tyres, anything but Button.

EDIT:- for the record if Button had gone only 0.15 seconds slower than Hamilton in Q3 he would have gotten 6th, not 2nd like Hamilton, not 3rd, but 7th, still no where near good enough. The car is capable of second, he would have gotten 7th with his best lap, he ended up with 9th.
 
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I was just countering your comment that Button is consistently 3 to 4 tenths slower than Hamilton - today he wasn't, he was only 0.150 slower than Hamilton today. Not making excuses but no point bashing the bloke based on complete rubbish.
 
just watched this on sky+

great lap from vettel.

really happy hamilton 2nd, didnt think he would be that high up from q2 times.

not many passing places here so all down to the first couple of corners tomorrow.

button again way down the order but its only a couple of tenths.

amazing that in q2 the top ten were split by 2 tenths.

8-0 in quali for ham vs button.





at canada wasnt vettel about 4tenths clear on pole, see what happened then, so its not vettels race yet.

hope the temperature drops a bit for the race.
 
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Kenai said:
I was just countering your comment that Button is consistently 3 to 4 tenths slower than Hamilton - today he wasn't, he was only 0.150 slower than Hamilton today. Not making excuses but no point bashing the bloke based on complete rubbish.
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He's consistently 3-4/10th's slower that is all there is too it. Did I say he is only ever in that bracket no, but its a good rule of thumb, also he WAS 4/10th's slower when it mattered.

I would put money on Hamilton being able to get around the same time 9/10 times given 10 runs, I would give Button a 2/10 chance of matching his best time given the same chance.

He was closer than 0.15seconds in qualifying more than once, this season, and much more than 0.4seconds slower as well just this season. 3/10th's is what I'd call about average for how much slower he has been in qualifying than Hamilton his entire time at Mclaren.

While its also not always true, Q2 is sometimes faster than Q3, track wise, because you've got a lot more cars dumping more heat into the track, temp can drop a little between, anything can happen. The only thing you can say is under the same track conditions at the same time Button was 4/10th's behind Hamilton in Q3, in Q2 when Hamilton never pushes the car to its limit, Button was faster, who says the track wasn't faster then also? 6 of the 10 in Q3 went slower than in Q2.

Also just for whoever it was(bad at remembering names) last race talking about Hamilton vs Button compared to Alonso vs Massa, Massa finished 7/100th's behind Alonso, Button finished 4/10th's behind Hamilton, if we compared that fastest time, its still 15/100th's slower. :p
 
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Crazy close Q2. Vettel ruined it by doing a damn fine lap in Q3!

Looking forward to seeing what Hamilton can do in the race. The RB looks stronger here than Canada.
 
Kenai said:
That doesn't sound very consistent to me for someone who is consistently 3 to 4 tenths slower.
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Is it really hard to work out, sometimes he's around 2/10th's down, sometimes its a second, sometimes its 6/10th's, often its inbetween 3 and 4/10th's down.

Monaco Q2(button didn't make it to Q3), Button just under 4/10th's down on Hamilton.

Spain, Q2(same reason) 5/10th's.

Bahrain 2/10th's.

China 5/10th's.

Malay 1.5/10th's

Aussie 1.5/10th's.

add them up, divide by 6..... 0.316 :o I'm truly shocked by this, really.

I was nice and didn't include Canada as Button both went on the hard tyre, locked up shockingly badly considering he was cruising around putting in a time incase anyone else didn't and he could steal a couple places and ended up almost 1.5 seconds down.

Last year looking through the results, they aren't always between 3-4/10th's, but the average would be around that and more frequently seen gap between them is around that also.

The year before, and this is because I got bored, i looked through the results from end of season through Belgium, what do I see again, the most often seen gap was 3-4/10th's, out of 8 races about 5 of them are a 3-4/10th gap, the other's pretty much even out, one slightly smaller gap, one big gap and one big gap the other way for Button, again the average and median result would be 3-4/10th's.

Over 3 season the most often seen gap is 3-4/10th's, the average is about the same, and Button has consistently simply looked that much slower than Hamilton.

What level of consistency are you looking for exactly?
 
Well when someone says 'as always' then i'd be expecting a level of consistency around the 'always' mark for their statement not to be a complete load of tosh.

If you have to rely on averages to make the point, then the consistency obviously isn't as consistent as you'd like to make out.
 
probably going to be a huge train tommorow, i suspect a lot of the cars that qualified well wont have the race pace of some of the cars behind them
 
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