EV general discussion
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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Can you see though, if industry and governments lose revenue from ICE vehicles, they will get it from EV's and the like.
Like most things I guess the evolution over time will dictate the direction of travel. So if/when energy density improves, lets say for easy maths sake doubles, will it be used to halve the weight of a 250 mile range car or double the range to 500 miles for the same pack size?
Mega rapid charging infrastructure would say obviously halve the weight but as it stands right now if I was top dog at *insert car manufacturer* I'd say focus on range.
Hopefully there will be space in the market for an, as close as possible, EV replacement for my mk1 MX5. About a ton give or take, not mega powerful (<150 BHP/ton), not too grippy, 50/50 balance and a rag top roof. I'd be over the moon with a 150 mile real world summer range if it meant the rest of the boxes were ticked, assuming it could suck in electrons at a decent lick when hooked up to a rapid charger. I'd say there's more chance of me winning the lottery though because it'll be sneered by the motoring press for not doing 300 miles to a charge or accelerating to 60 in 4 seconds flat.
I'm seeing such polarising views on EVs now but I wonder how much of that is the algorithms delivering what they think I'll click? I tend to read around the subject (positive and negative views) as it is an area we've moved into and it helps to be clued up when talking to people in general. That said, talking to our customers the split of pro and anti EV is pretty stark.
Mega rapid charging infrastructure would say obviously halve the weight but as it stands right now if I was top dog at *insert car manufacturer* I'd say focus on range.
Hopefully there will be space in the market for an, as close as possible, EV replacement for my mk1 MX5. About a ton give or take, not mega powerful (<150 BHP/ton), not too grippy, 50/50 balance and a rag top roof. I'd be over the moon with a 150 mile real world summer range if it meant the rest of the boxes were ticked, assuming it could suck in electrons at a decent lick when hooked up to a rapid charger. I'd say there's more chance of me winning the lottery though because it'll be sneered by the motoring press for not doing 300 miles to a charge or accelerating to 60 in 4 seconds flat.
I'm seeing such polarising views on EVs now but I wonder how much of that is the algorithms delivering what they think I'll click? I tend to read around the subject (positive and negative views) as it is an area we've moved into and it helps to be clued up when talking to people in general. That said, talking to our customers the split of pro and anti EV is pretty stark.
@ICDP @bigmike20vt
So given the fairly minimal degredation of the battery over time, in years to come presumably diagnostic checks of battery health wouldn't be worthwhile? I know it's a lease only market right now but more interested in outright purchase in the future.
If it's not the battery that is going to give expensive issues, or atleast unlikely, I'm guessing rust/corrosion as per ICE vehicle? Or am I missing something with the motors, awd/rwd systems?
Or if I phrase another way, is buying an electric vehicle for say 10k in years to come a bad idea due to very expensive out of warranty parts that have an expected life cycle that isn't like an ICE vehicle?
So given the fairly minimal degredation of the battery over time, in years to come presumably diagnostic checks of battery health wouldn't be worthwhile? I know it's a lease only market right now but more interested in outright purchase in the future.
If it's not the battery that is going to give expensive issues, or atleast unlikely, I'm guessing rust/corrosion as per ICE vehicle? Or am I missing something with the motors, awd/rwd systems?
Or if I phrase another way, is buying an electric vehicle for say 10k in years to come a bad idea due to very expensive out of warranty parts that have an expected life cycle that isn't like an ICE vehicle?
It's a double advantage - small range from a smaller battery would gain a few miles extra range too thanks to reduced weight.
It’s no different to buying any other car, you buy based on its condition, age, milage, price and model specific issues.
They tend to benefit from 8 year 100+k eateries on the battery and motors which should give you an idea about how much confidence manufacturers have in them. EVs have some very expensive components but they are also simpler machines by comparison.
I’d be concerned with the failure rate of other non-service parts once you get into older cars and this isn’t a unique to EVs either. For example incredibly complex matrix LED lights which if not fully functional will be an MOT fail. Some of those matrix light units are £1500 a side for a new one. Of course you’ll be able to get used parts but they may suffer the same fate. Even non-matrix LED headlights are expensive to replace.
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Soldato
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having owned my car for a bit I think it's fair to say there are 2 parts I am mostly worried about failing.
1) the 11kw AC charging system.
2) the headlights.
I knew about 1) when I got the car, it's just one of those things that does not go often but if it does it's trouble (like the cam belt on an ICE I guess)
but 2). was a shock for me. but this isn't an EV issue it's a modern high end car issue.
£2000 per from headlight cluster is just wrong. I really hope that does not fail. I mean they are good lights but not that much better than the xenon's on my 350z
1) the 11kw AC charging system.
2) the headlights.
I knew about 1) when I got the car, it's just one of those things that does not go often but if it does it's trouble (like the cam belt on an ICE I guess)
but 2). was a shock for me. but this isn't an EV issue it's a modern high end car issue.
£2000 per from headlight cluster is just wrong. I really hope that does not fail. I mean they are good lights but not that much better than the xenon's on my 350z
Soldato
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I have no idea sorry. my car isn't in a lease but I did get it 2nd hand. the battery still had 5.5 years warranty on it tho so battery health wasn't something I worried about (once I had done an initiall charge from 10% -100% and checked the range.)
Every bit of maintenance I've had to do on the Leaf is just standard car stuff. Suspension bushes, brake fluid change, pollen filter, drop links, tyres.
During a service, you get a detailed analysis of the battery which shows how it's been cared for and what state it's in. I'd expect to have a copy of that from the most recent service included in any Nissan EV I'd be thinking of buying.
I'm sure other manufacturers do similar.
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As other have mentioned buying a used EV is no different to buying a used ICE. You look at age and condition at your specific budget. The worry some have about battery degradation is understandable but realistically a state of health check should allay any concerns.
For a 3 year old EV, anything below 95% state of health and above 30k miles would have me walk away to look for another example. Any level of extreme mileage would logically indicate lots of rapid DC charging on long motorway trips. Right now it’s a buyers market and looking for lower mileage EVs is a good starting point that you have an EV that was not abused at rapids. It’s not a guarantee of course, but enough to raise a red flag.
Soldato
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maybe. I don't know what theoretically is worse for battery degredation .... a lot of DC charging or just being sat undriven at 100% battery charge..... and there is no way to tell that AFAIK.
I would be interested to know if you could legitimately return a car within a few weeks if you got it home and did a full charge and learned the battery was only taking 80% of it's intended capacity. in that sense having a battery health indicator is a useful feature.
none of this is any different from an ice car.
you are meant to warm the engine before giving it full beans but as a buyer you have no way of knowing if it had been thrashed from cold or not.
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All very true. It’s like any car, you look at condition and set red lines and a budget with some leeway of your own preference. Realistically a 3 year old EV with 30k plus miles is unlikely to be sat at 100% SoC for long periods, it would be a commute type car mostly charged at home on AC.
When I say extreme mileage I mean like one of those 3-4 year old EV such as Tesla Model 3 with no warranty you see for sub £18k and have 100,000+ miles on them.
I think we'll see a lot more LFP in cars over the coming years and degradation on those is just so much less and no worries about sitting on 100% either
It's just unreal how different the market is going to be in future, most EV launches are £50k+ RRP cars but the mainstream is at £30k and the EV market is going to evolve quickly
It's just unreal how different the market is going to be in future, most EV launches are £50k+ RRP cars but the mainstream is at £30k and the EV market is going to evolve quickly
Yes, with the shift heading towards ever more complicated electronics and technology much like in the headlights, it appears the days of buying cheaper used cars in future may be more limited. It's the none service parts I'm referring to, as they can fail and can be stupidly expensive relative to the outright cost of the vehicle.
What's the argument? Of course government will get tax out of people somehow.
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The dream revenue earning for Govts is mileage based taxation. Want to drive on the M25 during rush hour? That will be £1 per mile. Want to drive in the countryside on a B road at 11am, that will be 4p per mile.
With all the EVs and hybrids pretty much have all the tach to know where and when you are driving, it will be easy for them to bring in. Already they have been trials done in the UK.
No need at all. All they will do is capture road tax onto EV’s (see 2025) and charge dute on your charging.
Your proposal assumes VED and fule duty actually goes to support the road infrastructure. It doesn’t it’s just tax revenue.
Edit, my bet is around 25p per KWh for home charging.probably ramped up in 5p increments over 6-10 years
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