EV general discussion

It's not really 80%. No power station is even close to 80% efficient (the world record is only something like 62% but they don't normally run that high). Then there is the loss of actually sending the power across the grid and to the car, which is quite a bit.

The EV at the end of the line appears more efficient, but it's not generating the power itself (like in petrol/diesel) so OFC it would.
 
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adam cool dude said:
Also efficiency is already very high on EV's. 80% so there isn't really any gains to be made there.

Car ownership has gone up every year bar 1992 since the end of the second world war.
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So now you are saying that the mpkWh can't go up? So batteries, motors, aerodynamics, motor design, non of that will improve?

CaaS - That is all you need to know, again if you don't know what it is you are in for a surprise. ;)
 
Nasher said:
The EV at the end of the line appears more efficient, but it's not generating the power itself (like in petrol/diesel).
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Which is not generating the power itself either, does you car supply its own fuel somehow? It has to be explored for, then drilled, then extracted, then stored and transported, then stored, then refined, then stored, then transported, then stored, then delivered to your vehicle, which can then use it to make the ICE work and propel the vehicle.

It's also use once, unlike a wind turbine, solar panels, hydro electric damn, and the grid delivery system already exists, and I am pretty sure that isn't use once either.
 
Journey said:
Which is not generating the power itself either, does you car supply its own fuel somehow? It has to be explored for, then drilled, then extracted, then stored and transported, then stored, then refined, then stored, then transported, then stored, then delivered to your vehicle, which can then use it to make the ICE work and propel the vehicle.

It's also use once, unlike a wind turbine, solar panels, hydro electric damn, and the grid delivery system already exists, and I am pretty sure that isn't use once either.
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The fuel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel) is used to generate the power. An engine is just a small generator...

What do you think power stations use? Thin air?

You have to mine for lithium and rare Earth materials for EVs, then ship them across the world in big diesel powered ships. That's no different.
 
Nasher said:
It's not really 80%. No power station is even close to 80% efficient (the world record is only something like 62%). Then there is the loss of actually sending the power across the grid and to the car, which is quite a bit.

The EV at the end of the line appears more efficient, but it's not generating the power itself (like in petrol/diesel).
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Correct. "Grid to Wheel", the process is around 70% efficient (~10% lost in charging, then another ~15% in driving), but there are exceptions. Overall efficiency varies by electricity source, though arguably doesn't really matter if the source is renewable and (essentially) infinite (e.g. Solar).

There is definitely room for improvement though. On the WLTP cycle, the Nissan Leaf is rated for up to 168 miles from a 40kWh battery, while the Hyundai Ioniq manages up to 194 miles from a 38kWh battery.
 
Nasher said:
These problems still exist and there is going to be a shortage of materials once EVs become popular.
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Nobody knows whether there will be a shortage of Lithium or not. There's a lot of disagreement as to how much Lithium there is on the planet, and even more on the amount which is economically viable to recover. Way too early, and with far too little consensus, to say whether there is a shortage.

Cobalt may become a non-issue. A lot of murmurings of late about batteries which are either Cobalt-free, or use a minuscule amount of the stuff.
 
Nasher said:
It will still go further than metals like neodymium and gold will.

Shortages are already being predicted.
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Gold isn’t scarce at all, it’s just valuable because wealthy people like to lock it in vaults. There is actually an abundance of it out there.

There might be shortages that cause price increases for certain minerals, but a shortage is not the same as running out. I just means supply isn’t keeping pace with demand.

New extraction is being spun up all the time, just a new oil wells are being dug all the time....
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Gold isn’t scarce at all, it’s just valuable because wealthy people like to lock it in vaults. There is actually an abundance of it out there.

There might be shortages that cause price increases for certain minerals, but a shortage is not the same as running out. I just means supply isn’t keeping pace with demand.

New extraction is being spun up all the time, just a new oil wells are being dug all the time....
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Wat.. Gold is very scarce lol. Less than 200,000t has ever been mined in all of recorded history, with far less still in the ground.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Gold isn’t scarce at all, it’s just valuable because wealthy people like to lock it in vaults. There is actually an abundance of it out there.

There might be shortages that cause price increases for certain minerals, but a shortage is not the same as running out. I just means supply isn’t keeping pace with demand.

New extraction is being spun up all the time, just a new oil wells are being dug all the time....
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You sure you aren't thinking of Diamonds?

Gold is scarce. See link.
 
Nasher said:
Wat.. Gold is very scarce lol. Less than 200,000t has ever been mined in all of recorded history, with far less still in the ground.
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It's really not compared to other metals which are much more important to every day modern life, the industrial demand for gold is a small percentage of the total mining output. The vast majority of it these days goes into jewellery/bullion and just sits around looking 'pretty'. That's the reason why it used to be used as money back in the day, no one really needed much of it to do anything important with so it. The reality of it is if gold jewellery /bullion wasn't a thing, its value to plummet.

satchef1 said:
You sure you aren't thinking of Diamonds?

Gold is scarce. See link.
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No I'm just responding to the silly point that Nasher made suggesting there was going to be a shortage of gold. When in reality the industrial demand for is makes up a fraction of the total mining output. There is plenty out there for use in anything and its recyclable.

At the end of the day, water is scarce if you are in a desert.
 
It does now. But wait until we start having to make multiple millions of EVs a year.

Also remember that gold is extremely heavy. A 1 ton brick of gold is small enough to get your arms around it, so not much.
 
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