EV general discussion

Sagalout said:
it will be interesting to see how it all pans out. Talk on some other forums is that Tesla is really pushing the batteries and longevity/future warranty claims might be an issue. They seemingly reduce the charge speed after a certain amount of DC charging and mileage.
Click to expand...

Yes, it does appear that if you've done 150,000+ miles of very fast DC charging then they limit the packs current intake a bit. Not sure how many years it would take to hit 150k miles of charging like that, if you just used the UK average miles covered then we are talking nearly 2 decades! And we all know that the batteries will die after 5 years. :p

As for pushing the packs, they've got nothing to lose on the warranty front as they can just re-purpose the packs/cells, by the time they'd be knackered the costs of replacements will have gone down a great deal too, so it's a no lose situation if they sell more cars in the first instance.

Sagalout said:
I have an iPace and apparently Jaguar are extremely conservative on the amount of battery they allowed to be useable, to ensure they don’t end up with a load of warranty claims at 6 years (they use LG batteries) but in reality I’m not bothered either way, partly because 200 miles (at 80mph motorway speeds) is more than enough, and party as it’s leased anyway so Long term doesn’t bother me.
Click to expand...

Indeed, Jag can't afford to be too aggressive after all the iPace is their first all electric car built from the ground up and they don't have the knowledge or experience of the likes of Tesla. The Jag BMS system is supposedly very, very conservative, and as such there are a number of people saying that the car will end up on a scrap heap long before the pack degrades enough to need replacing. The question is therefore put, why spend all that money to put a 90kWh pack in a car if you aren't going to get the use out of it? If the packs last 10 years and still has 95% of the rated capacity, what is the point? In 10 years there will be cars way better than the iPace for a fraction of the cost it is new now, and will have better everything. Meaning you'll have a great pack that never really got used, unless you are doing rep-mobile mileage in it.
 
Yeah, agreed with all that. Jag made a recent update which increased the range by 8% (essentially just allowing more useable of a the battery) so maybe they are just gathering data.

Pretty sure that the Tesla DC charging limit was more like 20k miles though?
 
So me and the Mrs were looking online. I'm working on how much we save monthly, so if she sold her focus we would get ~9k deposit and I can get a 6 month old leaf for 25k which seems OK. For us with this car ~250 a month is a reasonable amount to spend. She did like the look of the e-niro (which surprisingly is shorter than the leaf), but I don't think theyve been released yet and are 10 grand more than the leaf. I'm thinking I might move to the model 3 performance next year, as I currently spend ~4500 a year on fuel, servicing and warranty:eek:. Anyone have an idea if what service costs are for a leaf and the model 3, I know it's a bit of a standing joke on that the service is too up washer fluid but I wasn't sure what else needs doing.
 
theone8181 said:
So me and the Mrs were looking online. I'm working on how much we save monthly, so if she sold her focus we would get ~9k deposit and I can get a 6 month old leaf for 25k which seems OK.
Click to expand...

Better off leasing a Leaf for 24 months on one of the current deals if you are not bothered about colours etc. You can get a 24 month PCH deal for ~£5,700. I don't think the newer Leaf will hold the value anywhere near as well as the like of the E-Niro, hence the suggestion.
 
spiritmonitor site seems to have some real world Kwhr/100km for ioniq ev but little for ipace or model3
https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/19-Hyundai/1554-IONIQ.html?fueltype=5&page=6&powerunit=2
are there better sites ?


After reading this https://electric-fun.com/surprise-r...ly-as-good-as-the-tesla-3-long-range-rwd-car/
where taycan is level pegging model3 lr, for range, on a real world test, confounding tesla wltp(european)/epa(usa) figures + their credibility.
I wonder if range+energy estimates are going to become tomorrows equivalent of emissions scandal.


49542654008_7eecaa7600_c_d.jpg


https://insideevs.com/news/396446/porsche-taycan-turbo-tesla-model-3-range/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gzrz2GsNho&feature=youtu.be
 
The Porsche is relatively efficient at high speeds, much less so at low speeds. The EPA and WLTP test cycles include a mixture of both, with EPA focusing more on relatively high speeds. The Model 3 is a more efficient vehicle that performs very well during "normal" driving in a country like the UK. And no, I don't accept the testing above as "normal" driving, because it is contradicted by real world experiences and other testing where the Model 3 LR AWD performs better. I've driven one myself and even driving down the motorway at 70mph in cold conditions would yield a better range than the above.

The edge in range that the Model 3 has diminishes when belting down the Autobahn, though, which is the Porsche's territory. That's what the test above shows and this is not going to be reflected by EPA and WLTP testing. That test is focussed on much higher speed driving, with an average speed of 81 mph and a max speed of 93 mph when it's 7 celcius outside. Needless to say, no "official" figure is going to reflect that sort of driving. But let's not forget the battery pack size and vehicle size and weight differences - the Model 3 is more efficient either way, looking past raw range in specific conditions. There's no "scandal" here, so don't try to paint this as such. And don't draw ridiculous parallels with the emissions scandal.
 
Last edited:
jpaul said:
I wonder if range+energy estimates are going to become tomorrows equivalent of emissions scandal.
Click to expand...

Whut? If a car is tested to travel a certain distance in certain conditions and it achieves that it then you can't "cheat" that as it actually achieved that range. I think what you are trying to say is that the WLTP and EPA test cycles need to better design for the transition to BEV's.
 
The taycan and tesla have similar 0.23'ish cd's, taycan has it's gearbox, and, if they are coming in even range, at a speed which many are doing on the motorway in the UK,
that's saying something about porsche's efficiency advantage , and it's dificult to believe at slower speeds it won't be embarrassed as much as wltp/epa suggest (even if aerodynamics is a squared/cubed ? function)

Also, how well thought out are wltp tests for ev's ? eg
- battery temperature at which charging is performed, charger type, even, charge level at which test is performed.
- cabin climate control use. (back on the heat pumps)
 
jpaul said:
The taycan and tesla have similar 0.23'ish cd's, taycan has it's gearbox, and, if they are coming in even range, at a speed which many are doing on the motorway in the UK,
that's saying something about porsche's efficiency advantage , and it's dificult to believe at slower speeds it won't be embarrassed as much as wltp/epa suggest (even if aerodynamics is a squared/cubed ? function)

Also, how well thought out are wltp tests for ev's ? eg
- battery temperature at which charging is performed, charger type, even, charge level at which test is performed.
- cabin climate control use. (back on the heat pumps)
Click to expand...

You've got it backwards. The Porsche has a larger battery capacity but lower range at any speed. It's simply that it has a much worse comparable efficiency at lower speeds, because it is tuned for high-speed efficiency. It doesn't have effective regenerative breaking, for example. It isn't more efficient than the Model 3 at any speed, it's just that the gap in efficiency is greater at low speeds.

I'm not arguing against the fact that the WLTP test is absurdly optimistic. I've driven EVs of various types for about 6 years, including various Teslas. But it's also foolish to just focus on efficiency at illegally high speeds or even purely at 70mph constant cruising. Because in most traffic conditions in the UK you're going to have a mixture of higher and lower speed driving.
 
Last edited:
Have car manufacturers standardized on a charging plug to fit all vehicles?

If you charge on the driveway wont be surprised if your charging cable gets robbed. Any security for that?
 
PCM2 said:
You've got it backwards. The Porsche has a larger battery capacity but lower range at any speed. It's simply that it has a much worse comparable efficiency at lower speeds, because it is tuned for high-speed efficiency. It doesn't have effective regenerative breaking, for example. It isn't more efficient than the Model 3 at any speed, it's just that the gap in efficiency is greater at low speeds.
Click to expand...

although as you say the model3 lr had 68Kw (2year degradation) and the taycan 82Kw in their batteries, the 7c temperature favouring taycan and the +10% high speed efficiency on the tesla due to lowering - yes makes it apples against pears ... more online user data like the spiritmonitor site would help me the consumer understand wltp significance better
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom