EV general discussion

danlightbulb said:
My point is only that there must be other times where the promo could be offered. It's not logical that their one hour slot, defined a couple days in advance, exactly coincides with the actual negative pricing.

Hypothetically let's say there is excess electricity right now. It's quite windy, it's also quite sunny. It's a bank holiday Monday and so not many at work, it's after breakfast but before lunch so you'd expect demand to be quite low right now.

So it's quite plausible that right now we have excess capacity. Yet no offer.
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If it's a done deal of low demand to such an extent then maybe the cost equation flicks over to reducing capacity.

Normally the demand sessions tie up with inability to flex the fixed grid infrastructure and surplus supply.

The fact we are getting something is good.
 
It's logical that the less advance notice someone has the less they will participate.

It's also logical that the more in advance they set these sessions the lower the likelihood of the session coinciding with actual grid excess.

Ultimately I think a live system would work best. If the grid genuinely want to dump excess capacity on the market for free then just do so live at short notice and have regulation that obliges retailers to pass it on to consumers immediately.

I'd also like to see quick adoption of vehicle to load now I'm getting an EV. If I could avoid peak pricing by using my car battery to power my home that would be great. There will be 60 kWh sitting there on my drive which could power my home for 10 days straight if I didn't need to use the car. Could certainly have it kick in at peak each day and then recharge overnight.
 
danlightbulb said:
My point is only that there must be other times where the promo could be offered. It's not logical that their one hour slot, defined a couple days in advance, exactly coincides with the actual negative pricing.

Hypothetically let's say there is excess electricity right now. It's quite windy, it's also quite sunny. It's a bank holiday Monday and so not many at work, it's after breakfast but before lunch so you'd expect demand to be quite low right now.

So it's quite plausible that right now we have excess capacity. Yet no offer.
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There are more elements and variables that go into these sessions than "It's quite windy" :p

danlightbulb said:
It's logical that the less advance notice someone has the less they will participate.

It's also logical that the more in advance they set these sessions the lower the likelihood of the session coinciding with actual grid excess.

Ultimately I think a live system would work best. If the grid genuinely want to dump excess capacity on the market for free then just do so live at short notice and have regulation that obliges retailers to pass it on to consumers immediately.

I'd also like to see quick adoption of vehicle to load now I'm getting an EV. If I could avoid peak pricing by using my car battery to power my home that would be great. There will be 60 kWh sitting there on my drive which could power my home for 10 days straight if I didn't need to use the car. Could certainly have it kick in at peak each day and then recharge overnight.
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I can drop you the number for the Manager of the NG Transmission Network Control Centre, so you can offer your experience and insights to the team :p:cry:
 
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It’s amusing seeing Jpaul continue to champion other energy suppliers without any experience, must be hard work playing devils advocate when the devil you are arguing with is yourself?

And then the use case of non EV drivers where they seem to think cars are always plugged in such that plug in events are “gimmicks”, guess what. They generally aren’t plugged in.
 
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danlightbulb said:
It's logical that the less advance notice someone has the less they will participate.

It's also logical that the more in advance they set these sessions the lower the likelihood of the session coinciding with actual grid excess.

Ultimately I think a live system would work best. If the grid genuinely want to dump excess capacity on the market for free then just do so live at short notice and have regulation that obliges retailers to pass it on to consumers immediately.

I'd also like to see quick adoption of vehicle to load now I'm getting an EV. If I could avoid peak pricing by using my car battery to power my home that would be great. There will be 60 kWh sitting there on my drive which could power my home for 10 days straight if I didn't need to use the car. Could certainly have it kick in at peak each day and then recharge overnight.
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Re bolded, Shock horror as for 99,999,999th time Dan proposes something that benefits him.
I mean its not like it was predictable at all!

FWIW I follow this on twitter as it gives me an early heads up for tomorrows likely pricing (published officially at 4pm)

Tomorrow's Prices: 27th August
Overnight low ~ 7p
Morning peak ~ 18p
Afternoon low ~ 5p
Evening peak ~ 36p

Now based on those numbers when do the tin foil hat wearers think Octopus would most likely offer free leccy?
 
Just got some spam in my inbox…

Here’s your Greener Days forecast, showing you the best nights to charge your EV this week to bag some Octopoints.

First things first: should you plug in tonight?

How the rest of the week is shaping up...

Mon 62
Tue 46
Wed 21
Thu 21
Fri 12
 
At the end of the day, the quicker we get everyone on a smart meter, the quicker we can move people away from flat rate tariffs that bear little reflection to the actual costs of generating electricity at peak times, the better.

The only reason a standard rate tariff is 24p is because of that 4-8pm peak demand. Half the reason we have such a high peak demand is people on flat rate tariff coming home from work and turning on every appliance they possible can, including car chargers.

I’m not saying everyone needs to move to half hourly pricing but the quicker the standard tariff moves to a 3/4 band system the better. E.g

super off peak 0000-0600,
standard 0600-1600,
peak 1600-2000,
standard 2000-0000

The typical person with no behaviour shift will pay about the same but those shift usage out of peak will save a ton of cash.
 
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b0rn2sk8 said:
At the end of the day, the quicker we get everyone on a smart meter, the quicker we can move people away from flat rate tariffs that bear little reflection to the actual costs of generating electricity at peak times, the better.

The only reason a standard rate tariff is 24p is because of that 4-8pm peak demand. Half the reason we have such a high peak demand is people on flat rate tariff coming home from work and turning on every appliance they possible can, including car chargers.

I’m not saying everyone needs to move to half hourly pricing but the quicker the standard tariff moves to a 3/4 band system the better. E.g

super off peak 0000-0600,
standard 0600-1600,
peak 1600-2000,
standard 2000-0000

The typical person with no behaviour shift will pay about the same but those shift usage out of peak will save a ton of cash.
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By rule of averages how can the peak user "pay about the same" if the overall rate is subsidized by off peak users?
 
dlockers said:
By rule of averages how can the peak user "pay about the same" if the overall rate is subsidized by off peak users?
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Exactly. Some will have to pay more and that will be where the potential sociodemographic push back will be.

Working family on low wage. No EV, no battery storage, kids need feeding after school etc. would be the ones who have to pay more.

Work from home above average earner with EV and home storage and no kids has potential to be the biggest winner.

It's all academic anyway with the Smart meter roll out in the state it is. My one is starting to crap out as of a fortnight ago. Trying to get everyone on board and all of them working will be a neverending task even ignoring those who flat out refuse to have one.
 
You’re forgetting the other side of the average, for a ‘typical’ user to be ‘typical’, there must be a bunch of people who are not typical for the opposite reason of a low user….
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
And just to highlight how the brains department of OCUK dont understand the pricing and why 1-2pm makes sense for the free hour

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That's cheap from 1130 till 130.

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Re bolded, Shock horror as for 99,999,999th time Dan proposes something that benefits him.
I mean its not like it was predictable at all!
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Only because I'd never had need to consider it before. You guys have all been load shifting for ages with solar and home batteries.

It's a good idea. But currently can't be done with a car battery as far as I know.
 
danlightbulb said:
That's cheap from 1130 till 130.



Only because I'd never had need to consider it before. You guys have all been load shifting for ages with solar and home batteries.

It's a good idea. But currently can't be done with a car battery as far as I know.
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Its cheap from 11 - 2 but if they wanna give an hour away the cheapest is 12:30 - 13:30 or 13:00 - 14:00
 
pastymuncher said:
Why are people complaining about free or reduced pricing on energy? It's ridiculous.
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Reminds me of the people who moan about not being able to afford stuff/ house, but they've got a laundry list of crap they bought (or done) on Instaspam, brand new iphone 15 Pro Ultra Max Super 1TB only £95 per month, PS5, 65" OLED TV, new car on PCP only £300 per month, loads of photos from the last two foreign holidays they went on, and how it only cost £100 to go snorkelling with the dolphins. Then they go, "can 't afford solar, or house for it to go on, and can't afford an EV too expensive as I have to buy £1000 charger to go on the house I can't afford, and gas costs too much", followed by, "Just driving to my mates at the weekend 900 mile round trip we are going to a concert to see Beyonce, ticket were a bargain only £300."
 
pastymuncher said:
Why are people complaining about free or reduced pricing on energy? It's ridiculous.
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there's no such thing as a free lunch - natural cynicism (waiting for Keirs 'and right here is when you start paying' speech tomorrow, too)
providing cheap electricity in a low consumption period isn't so useful unless your invested in time shifting (which GB energy may start doing)
the British Gas offering johnny - (fyi I remain with octopus) similarly gave a cheap chunk of energy on sunday lunchtimes .. just when I don't need it.

That £400p/m ID7 / 2year / 8K lease ... does look like a cheap lunch though
 
In theory the capitalist market should correct this free lunch discontinuity by investing in time shift battery storage, for the customers who would pay more,
like the ev driver at a public charger - reduced system entropy.

interesting podcast today on driverless cars (tesla technology included) https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00202gr
I hadn't realised what happened with Cruise withdrwal on the San Fran market & I'd never seen this they mention
pod didn't seem to discuss the hardware technology improvement needed in cars to store all this AI learning.
 
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