EV general discussion

[Jonnycoupe]

They have the Explorer for a dedicated BEV, albeit not their own platform. At least kuga gives a cheaper car with their own hardware etc. A battery Fiesta was never gonna happen in terms of hiding the battery so this is the next best thing.

 

[steve5424]

They have the Explorer for a dedicated BEV, albeit not their own platform. At least kuga gives a cheaper car with their own hardware etc. A battery Fiesta was never gonna happen in terms of hiding the battery so this is the next best thing.

Yeah the Explorer, Capri and Mach-e are all dedicated EV platforms. But two of them are really the same car with a different shell.

They need a proper smaller car size to compete properly. Not another mid size SUV.

 

[jpaul]

where is the platform from then ?
- seemingly not VAG, like the explorer/capri, and the drivetrain doesn't sound like the newer/higher efficiency VAG unit, maybe it's the original ID3 one

 

[Kenai]

where is the platform from then ?

It's the standard Puma platform (which I think is Ford's universal small car platform) modified for an EV drivetrain afaik

 

[VaderDSL]

I think they're also re-using the same'ish EV drivetrain for the new e-transit courier as well, i believe they're the units being made in Merseyside at the Halewood plant?

 

[steve5424]

I think they're also re-using the same'ish EV drivetrain for the new e-transit courier as well, i believe they're the units being made in Merseyside at the Halewood plant?

Yes correct. Same drive train.

 

[chanjy]

You are in the minority then. EVs that old are worth less than the equivalent petrol cars and they are very hard to sell.

The cheapest 10 year old Tesla Model S

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The cheapest 10 year old 5 series

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I'm sure your argument is complete b*****ks but I know you're only here to troll so no point doing much more work than this 2 min search

 

[Simon]

let’s be realistic, the real price is not £30k, no one is paying that.

But yes, as others have said the 43kwh battery is too small for a car of that size.



It’s on the Ford website, it’s 43kwh for the standard range which is the only model on sale.

Just 220 miles WLTP range if you add the premium pack for £2k, that’s just dire. 234 miles without.

Applying my usual rule of thumb of knocking off 1/3 for those cold winter days it takes you down to 160 miles real world range in winter…

It’s the price on a P11D. The rest is irrelevant as it’s the monthlies.

 

[Simon]

That’s the real issue. If it’s up against other EVs built on dedicated electric only platforms it’s never going to be competitive in terms of range/ efficiency/reliability/pricing regardless of how much they discount it.

You could get away with repurposing ICE platforms for EVs a few years ago but there’s too much competition out there now.

Not sure I will ever understand how a powertrain is less efficient ‘because not ground up EV’. What’s exactly the issue ?

 

[Jonnycoupe]

I just don’t get it. Affordable pumas. Moaning. Expensive Jaguar. Moaning.

 

[Simon]

where is the platform from then ?
- seemingly not VAG, like the explorer/capri, and the drivetrain doesn't sound like the newer/higher efficiency VAG unit, maybe it's the original ID3 one

Did you look at the power output and compare ?

 

[Simon]

30k for a Fiesta basically (which isn't as good as an actual Fiesta).

How. Have you driven both. Certainly it’s going to have better fuel costs !

1563kg so probably too light too??

 

[jpaul]

Did you look at the power output and compare ?

had scanned the autogefeul video and the 0-60 time @8s seemed slower than original id3, also fwd following it's ICE heritage ..
if it was 270ps (e: type performance) I'd have thought nice they've got the new efficient/powerful vag motor ... they could have detuned that though.

 

[steve5424]

Not sure I will ever understand how a powertrain is less efficient ‘because not ground up EV’. What’s exactly the issue ?

As it wasn't built for an EV they need to squeeze it in. Hence the smaller batteries as there isn't much room for it all.

EV only platforms will always be better.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

It’s the price on a P11D. The rest is irrelevant as it’s the monthlies.

Only if you assume people continue to salary sacrifice as BIK increases. The low BIK rates have dragged in loads of people (like me) who ordinarily wouldn’t have a ‘company car’ and only do so because they are cheap. It’s massively distorting the market at the moment.

You’d expect the salary sacrifice market to decline as BIK increases and those buyers to go back to doing what they would ordinarily do before 2% BIK was ever a thing.

In any case, the Puma would need to be knocked out really cheap on the monthlies because it’s competitors come in at similar prices with a better package.

You’d only choose the Puma (assuming it met your needs) if you really like the styling, it was cheaper or you just did no research whatsoever and always just buy Ford because it’s a Ford.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

As it wasn't built for an EV they need to squeeze it in. Hence the smaller batteries as there isn't much room for it all.

EV only platforms will always be better.

So ironically more efficient as they don’t weigh as much. Great point.

 

[Simon]

As it wasn't built for an EV they need to squeeze it in. Hence the smaller batteries as there isn't much room for it all.

EV only platforms will always be better.

Did you see the size of the boot. It’s over 500l It’s huge. Anyway I mentioned efficiency not cabin space.

Smaller batteries also keeps it light

 

[Simon]

Only if you assume people continue to salary sacrifice as BIK increases. The low BIK rates have dragged in loads of people (like me) who ordinarily wouldn’t have a ‘company car’ and only do so because they are cheap. It’s massively distorting the market at the moment.

You’d expect the salary sacrifice market to decline as BIK increases and those buyers to go back to doing what they would ordinarily do before 2% BIK was ever a thing.

In any case, the Puma would need to be knocked out really cheap on the monthlies because it’s competitors come in at similar prices with a better package.

You’d only choose the Puma (assuming it met your needs) if you really like the styling, it was cheaper or you just did no research whatsoever and always just buy Ford because it’s a Ford.

Well you are assuming price doesn’t matter as no one pays that. That wasn’t my point. And you assume people go back to non EV if BIK goes up? I doubt this. When BIK is 8% the P11D value IS important.

Also it stays below the 40k car. So versus a 60k EV the SS costs will be much lower per month making cars like this more appealing.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Well you are assuming price doesn’t matter as no one pays that. That wasn’t my point. And you assume people go back to non EV if BIK goes up?

No, I assume people will go back to buying cars in the way they did before the tax incentive was a thing (e.g. the finance arrangement, not the fuel type). Remember BIK on ICE is set to raise also.

For example, I will go back to buying used cars.

I doubt this. When BIK is 8% the P11D value IS important.

It’s important but only if you assume people continue to salary sacrifice, they won’t because it becomes less affordable.

Salary sacrifice leases are generally not very competitive with what’s available in the wider market due to their relative captive market. It’s generally cheaper because of the tax incentive. Remove the tax incentive and the market will shift back towards what happened before the incentive was a thing.

The P11D value is very similar to its competitors (e.g. an ID.3 or a Mokka) so it’s not really a defining factor. In any case, it just forms part of the monthlies and that final number is all that the vast majority of customers care about.

Also it stays below the 40k car. So versus a 60k EV the SS costs will be much lower per month making cars like this more appealing.

40k is only relevant for VED. I’m also not sure what you are getting at comparing a 60k car vs a 30k car, the two are aimed at completely different purchasers and their respective quality expectations. If you are considering a Puma, you probably are not also considering a long range Polstar 2 with most of the trimmings.

 

[Simon]

BIK is half. Big number on 8% BIK, per month

40k+ car is £40 a month

Are you even on a SS ? They are massively competitive especially 60-45% tax band