EV general discussion

OspreyO said:
So while we'd all like to sit on a destination charger for hours because it's convenient it might not be the optimal use of the infrastructure.
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It's about horses for courses - taking the park & ride or hotel example - if the typical parking behaviour is for cars to be sat for 4h+ anyway, there's less benefit having a few chargers that can charge a car in 20 or 30 minutes but nobody is coming back to anytime soon vs having a lot of chargers that can charge lots of cars over several hours.

The flip side is that obviously you don't want 50 22kW chargers at a motorway services where people are going to want to be in and out in as close to 15 minutes as possible, there it's much more useful to install a few 250-350kW chargers.

Putting in a DC charger at a hotel with an overstay fee is pointless, because people are not going to be shuffling cars and hopping on and off all night, you'd end up that simply nobody uses it all.
 
Unsurprisingly, the EU have scrapped the ban.

UK won’t budge on its 2030 petrol car ban after the EU bends to industry pressure | Auto Express

From 2035, 10 per cent of car sales in the EU can comprise hybrid, plug-in hybrid or even standard petrol and diesel cars
www.autoexpress.co.uk www.autoexpress.co.uk

So what does this mean? Well, while the previous plan saw only pure-electric and hydrogen cars allowed to be sold from new in the EU after 2035, the new revision enables manufacturers to consider selling plug-in, full and mild-hybrid, as well as old-school internal combustion petrol and diesel models past this date.

The catch is that these types of vehicle can only account for 10 per cent of sales; manufacturers will be required to offset the emissions from these cars by utilising low-carbon steel during manufacturing, or by powering their cars with e-fuels and biofuels.
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lordrobs said:
I'm not sure how you can create knowledge around a charging scenario that doesn't exist yet. Going back to my hotel example, if I was on a work trip and the 200 room hotel I'm staying at has 4 7kW chargers it isn't even going to factor into my consideration. I'm going to work on the assumption that they won't be available and stop en route on a rapid.

If it had 50 chargers I'd be confident I would be in luck, and that 50 has the same power demand as a single 350kW rapid.*
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Absolutely this. I ignore sites with less than 4 chargers unless it's my only option, or there's a site with more chargers within less than a mile.

Simply can't be bothered with the hassle of turning up and being unable to charge when I need it

OspreyO said:
I've heard it said you can rotate a lot more people through a DC charger with a few cables and switch an over stay fee and fine. Than you can having a bunch of AC chargers that people will block for an entire day (and night).

I'm going to assume a DC charger is much more profitable than a AC charger. Despite the higher costs.
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But then businesses also need to take into account how attractive those chargers are going to make the business.

Say a country pub for example - people doing a quick splash and dash on a 100kw charger aren't necessarily going to use the business (and people like me are going to ignore the site due to the high possibility of a single charger being in use/broken), whereas 10x 7kw chargers is an incentive to visit that pub for Sunday lunch vs the one down the road with no chargers
 
Haggisman said:
Absolutely this. I ignore sites with less than 4 chargers unless it's my only option, or there's a site with more chargers within less than a mile.

Simply can't be bothered with the hassle of turning up and being unable to charge when I need it



But then businesses also need to take into account how attractive those chargers are going to make the business.

Say a country pub for example - people doing a quick splash and dash on a 100kw charger aren't necessarily going to use the business (and people like me are going to ignore the site due to the high possibility of a single charger being in use/broken), whereas 10x 7kw chargers is an incentive to visit that pub for Sunday lunch vs the one down the road with no chargers
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Have you been to many pubs that have 10 chargers.
 
Journey said:
Unsurprisingly the headline hides the fact the 'ban' means 90% still need to be BEV's or PHEV's at worst. So yeah, not sure it was worth the faff being broadcast.
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It does sound like an odd move.

Its hard to see how this 10% will fit into the mix. It kind of makes sense to the consumer that they are the general runabout type cars but they only make financial sense when they knock them out at scale.

This is also pretty laughable...

Furthermore, in the lead up to 2035 manufacturers will be able to make use of so-called ‘super credits’ for small electric cars; these models (measuring under 4.3 metres in length) will each count as 1.3 vehicles against manufacturing quotas, enabling manufacturers to effectively ‘bank’ progress towards emissions targets.
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Sure everyone agrees that these types of vehicles would be a great thing but then offsetting the benefit of a smaller vehicle by allowing another ICE to be produced for every 7 EVs versus one for every 9.
 
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Journey said:
Unsurprisingly the headline hides the fact the 'ban' means 90% still need to be BEV's or PHEV's at worst. So yeah, not sure it was worth the faff being broadcast.
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I think it's becoming apparent that Phevs are used to circumvent emissions objectives. But on the flip side they are gateway to a Bev. Not that I think everyone needs an EV. An ICE is always going to have a use case.
 
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The 10% rule will ultimately kill off all but the most profitable models in ICE/hybrid/PHEV form. I’m not entirely sure this is the ‘capitulation’ the headlines make it out to be.

Presumably Euro 7 is still going to be a thing also.

We do have to remember that the EU is not a homogenous block when it comes to its ability to invest and make the transition. Countries in the east were its citizens are generally poorer are going to have much harder time transitioning and need to be careful they don’t become a dumping ground for old used OCE vehicles from their richer western cousins who are pushing these rules forward. It would make sense for different markets to ‘go live’ with the ban at different times because of this.
 
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OspreyO said:
I think it's becoming apparent that Phevs are used to circumvent emissions objectives. But on the flip side they are gateway to a Bev. Not that I think everyone needs an EV. An ICE is always going to have a use case.
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I'm a full 12 months and 28000 miles in to running one and I'm still not sure how I feel about them. Broadland area of Norfolk and Norwich benefit from the localised air pollution reduction as I've offset about 75% of my private fuel use.

That said over the 4 years and 100k+ I'll run the car only about a third of that will be EV miles and days like today (a pretty extreme 431 miles) that 10kWh usable seems like a spit in the ocean.

On the flip side my refueling was all of about 2 minutes at a pay at pump Tesco and cost me £30. On the flip flip side I was stopped at a services for half an hour while I was having lunch and doing a few emails which could have been charging time.
 
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lordrobs said:
Broadland area of Norfolk and Norwich
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Complete tangent to your post but reminded me of an article recently about Northumberland - one of several areas of the country which still have a significant number of properties without a proper electricity supply or even no electricity supply at all combined with being largely rural, will be problematic for EV adoption (15% of people in the UK apparently live in off-grind homes with a large amount of that not being voluntary). With people quoted eye watering amounts to be connected to the grid. There are still a lot of people in this country where adopting an EV isn't a reality and PHEVs have an important part to play if we are to move away from pure ICEs.

On a related note to that they've been doing supply upgrades in my local area citing [future] EV demand as one of the factors on the planned power cut notifications.
 
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10% sales is a weird one... eventually if you're only selling that few cars the cost of fuel is going to go up considerably and that might kill off the combustion engine for all except vehicles used as hobbies
 
Sounds like there no where to park for non EV. I’m sure there’s a sweet spot but 180 EV only spaces sounds a bit excessive. Especially in dundee

Only 267 none EV spaces. The car parc isn’t 40% EV yet
 
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Rroff said:
Complete tangent to your post but reminded me of an article recently about Northumberland - one of several areas of the country which still have a significant number of properties without a proper electricity supply or even no electricity supply at all combined with being largely rural, will be problematic for EV adoption (15% of people in the UK apparently live in off-grind homes with a large amount of that not being voluntary). With people quoted eye watering amounts to be connected to the grid. There are still a lot of people in this country where adopting an EV isn't a reality and PHEVs have an important part to play if we are to move away from pure ICEs.

On a related note to that they've been doing supply upgrades in my local area citing [future] EV demand as one of the factors on the planned power cut notifications.
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Why would they want a phev if they can't charge it.
 
OspreyO said:
Why would they want a phev if they can't charge it.
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I was talking in terms of if there is a push to move away from pure ICEs - they'd still be able to charge some of the time i.e. there is an increase in businesses where people work installing chargers, etc. etc. but means they don't have to deal with the considerations of lacking charging options locally to where they live and as Simon said rural areas often have regen potential.
 
Rroff said:
Complete tangent to your post but reminded me of an article recently about Northumberland - one of several areas of the country which still have a significant number of properties without a proper electricity supply or even no electricity supply at all combined with being largely rural, will be problematic for EV adoption (15% of people in the UK apparently live in off-grind homes with a large amount of that not being voluntary). With people quoted eye watering amounts to be connected to the grid. There are still a lot of people in this country where adopting an EV isn't a reality and PHEVs have an important part to play if we are to move away from pure ICEs.

On a related note to that they've been doing supply upgrades in my local area citing [future] EV demand as one of the factors on the planned power cut notifications.
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15%, that number seems awfully… high.

This article on the BBC article suggests it’s about 2000 properties and 450 in Northumberland - I agree that is a large share for that county mind.

www.bbc.co.uk

Off-grid living 'not a dream, it's a nightmare'

Off-grid households say they would love a mains connection, but the price is just too high.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

There are approximately 30 million dwellings in the U.K., so 2,000 into 30 million, I make that 0.006%.
 
chanjy said:
10% sales is a weird one... eventually if you're only selling that few cars the cost of fuel is going to go up considerably and that might kill off the combustion engine for all except vehicles used as hobbies
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It's a political sop to the car makers that has almost no material impact on the challenges they face. Personally I'm pleased it's so weak as it lessens the chance any UK government might weaken it's policy position.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
15%, that number seems awfully… high.

This article on the BBC article suggests it’s about 2000 properties and 450 in Northumberland - I agree that is a large share for that county mind.

www.bbc.co.uk

Off-grid living 'not a dream, it's a nightmare'

Off-grid households say they would love a mains connection, but the price is just too high.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

There are approximately 30 million dwellings in the U.K., so 2,000 into 30 million, I make that 0.006%.
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Sorry didn't word that right was a quick edit in - 15% of the rural population. Dwellings != to population numbers though and that will include more complex situations than straight up off-grind one dwelling houses.

I think we had a conversation before about the grid around where I live - we've recently had scheduled work to upgrade my area with one of the things cited was the need for capacity to accommodate vehicle charging (I'm actually surprised they are doing it with the costs involved due to the type of overhead lines bringing it in here - but as it is an area some rich and famous retire to maybe someone has some influence).
 
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