EV general discussion

Ant84 · 30 Sep 2019 at 08:43

sovietspybob said:
I'd be going for one of the last of the 28kwh ones as they can be picked up for around £20-£21k, i don't fancy the 38kwh model with it's lack of rapid charging. Would make it a no go for use on holidays where the older model will do just fine.

Unfortunately I need a minimum of 160 miles range as it'll be used for private hire locally. Not too fussed on the issues with rapid charging as it'll be fully charged on my driveway overnight.

Otherwise I'd definitely have gone for the first gen Ioniq.

bimbleuk · 30 Sep 2019 at 10:52

Michael Marini said:
Waiting for a 600 miles range, under 30k and good interior quality, and pleasant exterior.
I think the next generation will do.

Nasher said:
Yes still to many changes and improvements to come, which will make the current ones obsolete and hard to sell on in future. Needs another 10 years for me.

Funny 600 miles used to be 400 miles until EVs started getting up to 300 miles of range

True though they can be a compromise or at least a shift in how you plan your daily routine. I'm edging my bets with a Model 3 as it's got the latest Gen3 onboard hardware and gets regular software updates. Just waiting on v10 with some new features and Cuphead to play while spending those endless hours public charging. I refuse to do Careoke in public though!

Plus the v3 superchargers can delivery up to 200W charge speed on the larger packs now.

b0rn2sk8 · 30 Sep 2019 at 11:59

The 3 is capable of 250kw, no chargers in the UK yet though. But even on the regular 150kw chargers can add a huge number of miles in just a few mins due to the efficiency of the car.

600 miles is pointless, the car will spend 99.99% of lugging around 900kg of batteries that will get used once in their entire life, if even then.

I have driven 600 miles in a single day once in 15 years and I was on a road trip. Even then in that time I had at least 4 stops, one of which was 40+ mins. In something like a Tesla S/3 would mean the travel time was effectively the same and arriving with charge to spare.

The next thing people will start saying is that they need 600 miles range while towing a horse box.

I can see a huge 150-200kwh pack being useful in a big ‘super duty’/F250 truck but not in a regular passenger car.

[TW]Fox · 30 Sep 2019 at 12:43

b0rn2sk8 said:
have driven 600 miles in a single day once in 15 years and I was on a road trip. Even then in that time I had at least 4 stops, one of which was 40+ mins. In something like a Tesla S/3 would mean the travel time was effectively the same and arriving with charge to spare.

How easy will it be to charge when the majority of the vehicle fleet is ev?

Drumroll · 30 Sep 2019 at 12:50

I say 600 miles because it's my range, and as I'm unable to charge at home, and both local charging points available are always busy due to some chav parking their rusty noisy mobile there, no chance.
As petrol stations intrusive charging, then would be much better option, unless some manufactures keep the cheap design of not to use fast charging more than once a day.

Drumroll · 30 Sep 2019 at 12:52

[TW]Fox said:
How easy will it be to charge when the majority of the vehicle fleet is ev?

Once every petrol station is offering the fast charging capacity, the ev seems a better bet. But as most of new housing have barely one parking space, and sometimes none, still a niche vehicle.

Drumroll · 30 Sep 2019 at 12:54

b0rn2sk8 said:
The 3 is capable of 250kw, no chargers in the UK yet though. But even on the regular 150kw chargers can add a huge number of miles in just a few mins due to the efficiency of the car.

600 miles is pointless, the car will spend 99.99% of lugging around 900kg of batteries that will get used once in their entire life, if even then.

I have driven 600 miles in a single day once in 15 years and I was on a road trip. Even then in that time I had at least 4 stops, one of which was 40+ mins. In something like a Tesla S/3 would mean the travel time was effectively the same and arriving with charge to spare.

The next thing people will start saying is that they need 600 miles range while towing a horse box.

I can see a huge 150-200kwh pack being useful in a big ‘super duty’/F250 truck but not in a regular passenger car.

If my tank was reduced to 10 litres capacity, would be the same nightmare, but still more practical to carry 50 litres of fuel, even if readily available anywhere than 900kg of batteries.

Nasher · 30 Sep 2019 at 13:01

If you need more range in a petrol car you can just stick a couple of jerry cans in the boot. You dont have that option with batteries.

Drumroll · 30 Sep 2019 at 13:04

Nasher said:
If you need more range in a petrol car you can just stick a couple of jerry cans in the boot. You dont have that option with batteries.

Exactly. If someone fulfill all the requirements to own an ev, I would say go for it. But at the moment, I'm still being on diesel and petrol. Bought a new diesel 2 months ago.
And the whole charging at work won't be much of a benefit when the council introduce parking space tax for employers. Cambridge is going down this way.

Nasher · 30 Sep 2019 at 13:07

Michael Marini said:
Exactly. If someone fulfill all the requirements to own an ev, I would say go for it. But at the moment, I'm still being on diesel and petrol. Bought a new diesel 2 months ago.
And the whole charging at work won't be much of a benefit when the council introduce parking space tax for employers. Cambridge is going down this way.

Cambridge council are moronic. Glad I dont have to work in that area anymore.

I remember when they wanted to create a congestion zone/tax which covered the science park. They only backed down when all the companies on there said they would leave town. Because most people working on it commute in.

Drumroll · 30 Sep 2019 at 13:16

Nasher said:
Cambridge council are moronic. Glad I dont have to work in that area anymore.

I remember when they wanted to create a congestion zone/tax which covered the science park. They only backed down when all the companies on there said they would leave town. Because most people working on it commute in.

Exactly. Problem is the lack of interest from the government. When you see how poor is 4G and DAB coverage, makes one wonder about fast chargers.
But the lefties controling their interests at the city council can easily commute cycling, as they life at their few million pounds houses next to the town centre, or use taxis, paid by the taxpayer.
If they can't even sort out fast internet around let alone infrastructure for thousands of ev.

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 30 Sep 2019 at 13:31

[TW]Fox said:
How easy will it be to charge when the majority of the vehicle fleet is ev?

Probably far easier when every spot in the motorway services is a charge point
That point when Ev starts to really take off and petrol stations start closing is going to be a bitch if your still mainly using fossils by then

When the charge points really start spreading I am pretty certain your going to get them in all retail parks etc, companies are going to want to skim off a little extra via the infrastructure.
Petrol stations however are very expensive to licence, get the certs for etc. Which is why so many closed down as they are not effective without high turnover, this is also why they are all now trying to be shops, they can make more out of a sandwich and a bottle of drink than 30 litres of fuel. The supermarkets really did for indy garages.

Raymond Lin · 30 Sep 2019 at 14:10

I think future plans is to have a petrol engine owned outright and lease an EV. No matter what they say, battery deterioration will happen with current battery tech so leasing seems more logical unless the math is greatly against that.

As for which one....I'd love the new Honda, that would be fine to commute the 3 miles to work.

b0rn2sk8 · 30 Sep 2019 at 14:31

Agree on the Honda E, its such a charming little car, it’s just a shame it’s a ‘city car’. Even most city cars need to do a few hundred miles quickly every now and then and doing so in one will not be a fun experience in 2019/2020.

Same deal with the new Mini E, great charming little car, completely lack lustre for the once in a few month trip a normal person needs to do. They’ll be pretty much confined to 2nd cars for life.

Nasher · 30 Sep 2019 at 16:25

Unless you're a millionaire there isn't anything interesting in the EV market yet :/

It's quite a lot of money for just a low powered city car. Or something pretty generic.

Ant84 · 30 Sep 2019 at 16:48

Nasher said:
Unless you're a millionaire there isn't anything interesting in the EV market yet :/

It's quite a lot of money for just a low powered city car. Or something pretty generic.

Maybe so, but for me personally I'll be saving over £5,000 per year on fuel costs. Pays for the car and then some.

Journey · 30 Sep 2019 at 18:48

Ant84 said:
Maybe so, but for me personally I'll be saving over £5,000 per year on fuel costs. Pays for the car and then some.

How long before you get the MG delivered?

b0rn2sk8 · 30 Sep 2019 at 19:20

Nasher said:
Unless you're a millionaire there isn't anything interesting in the EV market yet :/

It's quite a lot of money for just a low powered city car. Or something pretty generic.

While I don’t disagree (apart from the underpowered part, most EVs have a fair amount of poke for their class) stuff like the Leaf is a lot of money and doesn’t make a huge amount of sense from a TCO point of view unless you do huge miles but keep in the range of the car. You also can’t get hold of the longer range stuff like the Kona, Nero etc.

Model 3 being pretty much the only exception right now. You need a pretty well speced 3/A4/C to match it terms of features and power, once fuel and maintenance is factored in it’s not far off price parity.

If the Model 3 follows fairly standard car depreciation I can see it being a bit of a used car bargain in 3-4 years once fuel and maintenance is factored in. Though I’d expect it to hold its value very well considering how cars like the Gen 1 Leaf haven't lost any value in 2 years. They are really quite expensive now on the used market for their age.

Journey · 30 Sep 2019 at 19:45

Given the almost imminent escalation of activities in/against Iran and the possible instability in the economy due to oil prices which will rocket up for an unknown amount of time, anyone who currently owns a BEV will be onto a winner and without doubt an appreciating asset. You could be looking at £2+ per lite of Unleaded, unless the government fix the VAT and duty to pre-crisis pump prices.

Nasher · 30 Sep 2019 at 20:01

Journey said:
Given the almost imminent escalation of activities in/against Iran and the possible instability in the economy due to oil prices which will rocket up for an unknown amount of time, anyone who currently owns a BEV will be onto a winner and without doubt an appreciating asset. You could be looking at £2+ per lite of Unleaded, unless the government fix the VAT and duty to pre-crisis pump prices.

Not sure the UK buys much of it's oil from Iran. Countries like Iran will collapse anyway once demand for oil starts to drop, it's just a waiting game.