EV general discussion

rpmmatt said:
4 years of £500 a month is £24k, plus around £3k initial rental.


I'm thinking the 6 year old diesel is still coming in under budget.
Click to expand...

You are comparing a 6 year old used vehicle with a brand new one and it’s a wonder why the brand new one costs more. :confused:

No one compares a 6 year old ICE and a brand new one and expect the new one to provide a lower cost of ownership.

Put an equivalent car/spec BMW/Merc/Audi/Volvo against the Model 3 and the numbers are very different, particularly if you are a company car driver but even just outright ownership.
 
[TW]Fox said:
Almost all of the cost of fuelling an ICE vehicle is taxation and duty not the actual cost of the product. Eventually, this cost will have to be carried by electric vehicles too, otherwise where does the shortfall come from?

Petrol isn't expensive - fuel duty and VAT is.
Click to expand...
Therefore, purchasing of petrol is expensive.

I hear what you're saying and I agree. However, on your question of sustainability, well it has to be more sustainable than fossil fuel driven vehicles regardless. If you hold the same mindset as myself then all of it won't matter anyway because eventually, having a car sat on your drive for 99% of it's time will just not be economically viable for the majority of the population. Self driving johnny cab styled fleets will be the future and you'll have a car at your door on demand, a fraction of what it costs to own and run an antiquated petrol vehicle. That might appear like a pretty miserable outlook but it seems an inevitability to me.
 
Last edited:
Matthew.M said:
And electricity currently has its own issues… if not for the energy price cap and people currently on fixed tariffs the cost per mile would be much much higher with the issues around gas prices/our grid.

Petrol pre-tax, as Fox says, is far far cheaper even now.

Who knows where the gov is going to get this tax deficit from if everyone switches. With electricity prices going the direction they are they’ll be parity with petrol soon per mile, but with a tiny proportion of tax revenue.
Click to expand...
Twaddle.
 
Guys, explain to me, do you believe electricity costs are going to sky rocket to make up for loss of taxation gleaned from fossil fuel sales or something? Households are going to be paying £1+/kwh, is this the mindset?

For context, my electricity tariff could increase ten fold and it would still be cheaper than fueling an ICE...
 
RoboCod said:
Guys, explain to me, do you believe electricity costs are going to sky rocket to make up for loss of taxation gleaned from fossil fuel sales or something? Households are going to be paying £1+/kwh, is this the mindset?

For context, my electricity tariff could increase ten fold and it would still be cheaper than fueling an ICE...
Click to expand...
No, just that the tax revenue from fuel will be replaced and it is hugely unlikely it'll come from anywhere other motorists.

Whether it's selective energy taxing via smart meters or simply taxing EVs with flat rates, or by miles/kWh bandings etc.

Nobody knows exactly how it'll happen but that tax revenue will be getting paid by the motorist one way or another.
 
RoboCod said:
Lots of big opinions from people will little to no EV experience though :(
Click to expand...

I’ve had three full EVs and 90% of my mileage since 2018 has been electric. I drove a 100 mile range BEV to Munich for fun. I’m hugely supportive of the transition for various different reasons, and not just cost.

But you can’t deny no one expected energy to cost what it does today. I’ve always assumed road pricing would be introduced at some point to bring them up to parity in cost. That’s not possible now. When I first got an EV electricity was so cheap I considered “fuel” free. With the economy of decent mild hybrids now vs the cost of charging away from home you could argue they’re already matched.

I don’t expect they’ll tax electricity to make up any fuel deficit, but I do expect them to start tapering back the incentives and ultimately slow the transition, especially benefit in kind tax. The car park at my work is becoming a sea of Teslas.

Hopefully the situation changes in the near future, but at the moment I don’t think it’s looking too positive.
 
Kenai said:
No, just that the tax revenue from fuel will be replaced and it is hugely unlikely it'll come from anywhere other motorists.

Whether it's selective energy taxing via smart meters or simply taxing EVs with flat rates, or by miles/kWh bandings etc.

Nobody knows exactly how it'll happen but that tax revenue will be getting paid by the motorist one way or another.
Click to expand...
This is the wrong attitude and as voters we should pressure our government to not just pass the taxation in another way to motorists. Stop bending over and taking it. Just because motorists are not paying tax in one form doesn't mean motorists should pay tax in another form to make up for it. It's a bigger issue. Either government spending should be reconsidered altogether (just as @Jonnycoupe just mentioned) or general taxation can be raised in other areas.

The same catastrophic rhetoric was sung when smoking was banned. If the government need tax funds, there's plenty of places to make them other than the motorist.
 
RoboCod said:
This is the wrong attitude and as voters we should pressure our government to not just pass the taxation in another way to motorists. Stop bending over and taking it. Just because motorists are not paying tax in one form doesn't mean motorists should pay tax in another form to make up for it. It's a bigger issue. Either government spending should be reconsidered altogether (just as @Jonnycoupe just mentioned) or general taxation can be raised in other areas.

The same catastrophic rhetoric was sung when smoking was banned. If the government need tax funds, there's plenty of places to make them other than the motorist.
Click to expand...
You can jump up and down saying its wrong and they should raise general taxation or spend less (otherwise spun as 'cuts') etc. but the sad reality of our political system is that those things are vote losers, so will be avoided at virtually any cost. I'd love it to be different but it's foundationless optimism to think it will be.
 
Doesn't Fuel Duty/VAT/VED bring in somewhere around £7 billion (or more), where would you add taxes, or cut spending, to cover those costs?

Less on NHS? Or Welfare?

Another 1.5% on NI?

Or find a new way to tax motorists instead...
 
Kenai said:
No, just that the tax revenue from fuel will be replaced and it is hugely unlikely it'll come from anywhere other motorists.

Whether it's selective energy taxing via smart meters or simply taxing EVs with flat rates, or by miles/kWh bandings etc.

Nobody knows exactly how it'll happen but that tax revenue will be getting paid by the motorist one way or another.
Click to expand...

Or possibly somewhat more likely, they seek to ensure EVs remain cheaper than ICE by increasing taxation on all vehicles (e.g. through road pricing). Though the difficulty there is in ensuring that people who can't afford a new car aren't priced off the road.
 
SKILL said:
Doesn't Fuel Duty/VAT/VED bring in somewhere around £7 billion (or more), where would you add taxes, or cut spending, to cover those costs?

Less on NHS? Or Welfare?

Another 1.5% on NI?

Or find a new way to tax motorists instead...
Click to expand...
We can get the money from a red bus
 
McPhee said:
Or possibly somewhat more likely, they seek to ensure EVs remain cheaper than ICE by increasing taxation on all vehicles (e.g. through road pricing). Though the difficulty there is in ensuring that people who can't afford a new car aren't priced off the road.
Click to expand...
Yet the greenest thing to do is not buy a new car at all and keep a old car running. A lot of these EV are literally throw away when they get smashed. A good % of norways sales is replacements for crashed or broken EVs that just get replaced rather than fixed.
 
Kenai said:
And the rest.

Fuel Duty was a £27 billion pot until Covid knocked a lot of driving on the head and it fell to £20 billion.

VED is more like £6-7 billion alone.
Click to expand...

Wow, yeah, just checked... For some reason I had £5 billion in my mind but that's probably a historical value for VED alone.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom