EV general discussion

[lordrobs]

The Link & Co 01 (Chinese SUV) tested higher than the Audi Q4 e-tron in the EuroNCAP 2021 test. The NIO ES8 is up in top 10 too.
The Polestar 2 is 2nd and that’s built in China, also from a Chinese owned company.

Exactly. I think peoples perception of "Chinese" cars will rapidly shift when people start seeing the products out in the wild.

There will always be some people that will "never buy cheap Chinese rubbish" but these are the same people that still tell the joke 'What do you call a Skoda with a sunroof...".

That Ora Cat looked quite interesting but I can't understand why they didn't give it a half decent boot? Maybe the target demographic they are looking at don't care about boot space and they wanted to keep the short rear from an aesthetic perspective?

 

[Bear]

I put fuel in a V8 today in the cold, now that’s what I see as a “faff”.

Yes but its worth it for the noise

 

[Uther]

Sorry I don't know what you can and can't afford. You simply stated what you wanted to do, and if it was achievable.

Not really no, I said what I did. If you can do a list of BEV's under 30k that will do a 400 mile trip with one 15 minute stop I'm all ears. I'm not an evangelist to either form of transportation.

 

[Bear]

There will always be some people that will "never buy cheap Chinese rubbish.

Thats because we have been conditioned to buy cheap Chinese rubbish due to Western companies profiteering. You can buy any product you want in China to whatever budget you choose, so you can buy cheap rubbish or decent quality but more expensive and everything in between, most companies that import from China go for the cheaper end because of the bottom line and thats mainly what we have been conditioned with

 

[uncle_rufus]

Been chatting to a few places about the id3, but it's crazy that leasing one from VW themselves is so much more expensive than leasing one through one of the bigger lease companies...

I can get the Family Pro 58kWh model with a handful of extras (colour change, alloys, 3pin charging cable which for some reason isn't included as standard), 8000 annual miles and 4 year term from selectcarleasing for about £330 pcm (with only a single month initial/deposit), but for the exact same loadout the VW garage near me want £460?! The VW "lease + care" includes basic servicing as well but that in no way justifies the difference in price... madness... I could lease a Model 3 instead for that kind of money

The lead time on the id3 is also pretty long (next April/May at the earliest) and part of me wonders about waiting for the supposed cheaper Tesla models that could be coming out next year (though who's to say if that will happen)

 

[SDK^]

The lead time on the id3 is also pretty long (next April/May at the earliest) and part of me wonders about waiting for the supposed cheaper Tesla models that could be coming out next year (though who's to say if that will happen)

There isn't going to be cheap Tesla in the UK for a while yet.
The Model S, 3 and Y have all taken 2+ years since the US launch to become available in the UK.

 

[mjt]

Random question: What is the going rate for the average kWh you guys charge at? Both at home and at charging stations.

 

[SDK^]

Random question: What is the going rate for the average kWh you guys charge at? Both at home and at charging stations.

My home rate is 16p kWh
Some overnight home tariffs have 5p kWh between 00:30 and 04:30

Public charging rate varies from free at some 7kW chargers, e.g. Tesco, or 23p to 69p per kWh. depending on the charging company and the speed of the charger.

 

[uncle_rufus]

There isn't going to be cheap Tesla in the UK for a while yet.
The Model S, 3 and Y have all taken 2+ years since the US launch to become available in the UK.

Makes sense, in which case going for the id3 for ~4 years and then see what the state of things are at that point I guess

Edit: But not from VW themselves, as they appear to be a total ripoff

 

[SDK^]

Makes sense, in which case going for the id3 for ~4 years and then see what the state of things are at that point I guess

Edit: But not from VW themselves, as they appear to be a total ripoff

4 years is a long time to lease a car, especially an EV, where the landscape is changing significantly every year. I would personally go for 2 or 3 years.

 

[mjt]

My home rate is 16p kWh
Some overnight home tariffs have 5p kWh between 00:30 and 04:30

Public charging rate varies from free at some 7kW chargers, e.g. Tesco, or 23p to 69p per kWh. depending on the charging company and the speed of the charger.

Thanks. I'm fortunate in that my night tariff is roughly 6p/kWh and it's 22:00-07:00!

Looking at some of those prices, I can't see how a BEV is really worth it over a hybrid or ICE. At 70p/kWh, you might as well just drive a normal car...

 

[uncle_rufus]

4 years is a long time to lease a car, especially an EV, where the landscape is changing significantly every year. I would personally go for 2 or 3 years.

Agree although you should see how much that jacks the price up I'm happy to stick with a car for 4 years even if I could technically upgrade to a better one...

 

[SDK^]

Thanks. I'm fortunate in that my night tariff is roughly 6p/kWh and it's 22:00-07:00!

Looking at some of those prices, I can't see how a BEV is really worth it over a hybrid or ICE. At 70p/kWh, you might as well just drive a normal car...

The 70p chargers are Ionity. At that price it would be one off use for longer trips.
Also, some car companies are Ionity partners (Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, Polestar and others) so the rate drops to 30p.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Not really no, I said what I did. If you can do a list of BEV's under 30k that will do a 400 mile trip with one 15 minute stop I'm all ears. I'm not an evangelist to either form of transportation.

The Kona is about as close as you are going to get but it’s above your budget and will require more time stopped.

Is £30k your normal ‘ICE’ budget or does it already factor in the considerably cheaper running costs of an EV? The total cost of ownership equations is greatly slated towards purchase cost, where as ICE is much higher running costs. The residuals on BEVs are also very good at the moment.

 

[Uther]

The Kona is about as close as you are going to get but it’s above your budget and will require more time stopped.

Is £30k your normal ‘ICE’ budget or does it already factor in the considerably cheaper running costs of an EV? The total cost of ownership equations is greatly slated towards purchase cost, where as ICE is much higher running costs. The residuals on BEVs are also very good at the moment.

I could be wrong, and hope I am, but sort of think running costs will increase massively once a majority of people are in BEV's. Gov will want that lost tax money back somehow.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I could be wrong, and hope I am, but sort of think running costs will increase massively once a majority of people are in BEV's. Gov will want that lost tax money back somehow.

The government generally doesn’t pass retrospective tax legislation. They can’t realistically tax the fuel so I can’t see any EV being bought now being in scope of what new taxes they bring in on new vehicles to replace VED/fuel duty.

For example, my euro 5 diesel still has £30 VED despite it being pretty bad on nox emissions and my wife’s euro 5 petrol is £200 and increasing while its ULEZ compliant.

 

[SKILL]

The government generally doesn’t pass retrospective tax legislation. They can’t realistically tax the fuel so I can’t see any EV being bought now being in scope of what new taxes they bring in on new vehicles to replace VED/fuel duty.

For example, my euro 5 diesel still has £30 VED despite it being pretty bad on nox emissions and my wife’s euro 5 petrol is £200 and increasing while its ULEZ compliant.

They could easily add a tax to any public chargers, but the more likely scenario is per-mile road pricing.

I agree they're not likely to alted the VED rates retrospectively, but there's other options which will almost certainly happen. Probably not for a fair while yet though.

 

[Journey]

October car registration data is out now.

BEV's up 73.1% YoY, to 16,155 from 9,335, the total registrations for the month were 106.2k down from 140k last year, putting the BEV market share for October at 15.2%, and PHEV's at 5.5%. BEV's for the year to date are now at 9.93% of total registrations, PHEV's at 6.71%. Looks like it could hit 10.5% in total for BEV's be the year end, possibly 11% if there are big numbers being delivered from all manufacturers in a push to get their CO2 target fines lowered.

 

[Sin_Chase]

The government generally doesn’t pass retrospective tax legislation. They can’t realistically tax the fuel so I can’t see any EV being bought now being in scope of what new taxes they bring in on new vehicles to replace VED/fuel duty.

For example, my euro 5 diesel still has £30 VED despite it being pretty bad on nox emissions and my wife’s euro 5 petrol is £200 and increasing while its ULEZ compliant.

Our local Government is going to reintroduce user pays road tax because they are losing fuel duty income as BEV adoption increases.

All the while they are scratching their heads as to how to encourage greener transport and living.

Bunch of muppets.

 

[jpaul]

October car registration data is out now.

they need to be upfront on the % of total that are company bev purchases , if it's still 2/3 of total then government needs to adjust incentives - levelling up;
for example they are starting advertising for care-workers, but like other professions, if they cannot afford London congestion charge say, you create unecessary economic problems.