EV general discussion

[AndrewNR]

Renault Zoe servicing was £99 iirc

My 335i is £500 this year so EVs are still relatively cheap...

A 335i isn't going to be cheap is it - normal ICE car service is about £150-£250 for your standard 1.4 VAGs etc., so seems comparable with EVs?

 

[jpaul]

New MG electric advert and shouts the 7 year warranty piffle/lie

but, if you owned one beyond a PCP,
when you look at what their accoladed 7 year warranty, exclusions are - hmm - maybe that is par for the course

WHEEL BEARINGS 36 months 45,000 miles ALL BALL JOINTS 36 months 45,000 miles ALL BUSHES 36 months 45,000 miles TRACK ROD ENDS 36 months 45,000 miles DAMPERS, STRUTS 36 months 45,000 miles RUBBER COMPONENTS 36 months 45,000 miles
INFOTAINMENT, CONVENIENCE SYSTEMS & DRIVER AIDS 36 months 45,000 miles

 

[ICDP]

I see Tesla delivered over 930k vehicles in 2021, and over 308k in Q4 alone, given the parts shortages and pandemic that is amazing performance IMO. Berlin and Texas due online in Q1, means Tesla could be delivering ~2m+ vehicles in 2022! Pretty insane if you consider it was only a decade ago 2012 that they announced/launched the Model S.

Just to put it into perspective, VAG sold 9.3 million vehicels in 2021, BMW close to 2 million, despite the pandemic and chip shortages. I'm not a VAG fan, just putting some perspective on these numbers.

 

[Journey]

Just to put it into perspective, VAG sold 9.3 million vehicels in 2021, BMW close to 2 million, despite the pandemic and chip shortages. I'm not a VAG fan, just putting some perspective on these numbers.

VAG, as in the entire Volkswagen Audi group, only sold 9.3 million vehicles, when they have over 50 models and have been around for the best part of 100 years... whuuut that is terrible. Just saying.

 

[ICDP]

No sense of perpective I see.

 

[Journey]

No sense of perpective I see.

Perspective, so if Tesla sell 2m vehicles this year, and BMW also sell 2 million, which company would you say more successful? One has been around since 1916 and is losing sales, or one that is growing exponentially year over year. As for VW, love the fact they are trying but even their own CEO says they aren't doing enough against the likes of Tesla, wait till all the China cars land here (Europe) too XPeng, Nio, etc. the Germans will be scratching their heads.

 

[chroniclard]

Well bro just ordered an i4 M50 to replace A45s, see what thats like when it arrives....not sure how long it will be!

 

[Simon]

Perspective, so if Tesla sell 2m vehicles this year, and BMW also sell 2 million, which company would you say more successful? One has been around since 1916 and is losing sales, or one that is growing exponentially year over year. As for VW, love the fact they are trying but even their own CEO says they aren't doing enough against the likes of Tesla, wait till all the China cars land here (Europe) too XPeng, Nio, etc. the Germans will be scratching their heads.

But the other OEMs are transitioning now If a little late. So to think the swap is going to continue is probably a little deluded. Plus number of cars doesn’t really do much for a company. It’s the profit per vehicle that counts.

For a car as a product it’s hard to see people buying a M3P over a i4 M50.

 

[Simon]

Well bro just ordered an i4 M50 to replace A45s, see what thats like when it arrives....not sure how long it will be!

July I think. My friend just ordered one too.

 

[m4rmite]

But the other OEMs are transitioning now If a little late. So to think the swap is going to continue is probably a little deluded. Plus number of cars doesn’t really do much for a company. It’s the profit per vehicle that counts.

Very true, but as a model 3 takes 10 hours to build and a ID3/4? takes 30 hours, who's losing their profit to labour?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwi...y-vw-says-work-harder-bmw-plays-premium-card/

 

[Simon]

Time of production process from start to finish isn’t equal to manhours.
Would be interesting to know what Tesla make from the cars versus selling the carbon credits. Haven’t been able to find that easily

 

[Stu999]

For a car as a product it’s hard to see people buying a M3P over a i4 M50.

The Tesla is cheaper before you even start with BMW’s extensive and expensive options list.

As for production man hours I would imagine Tesla man hours are far less than VW.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

The Tesla is cheaper before you even start with BMW’s extensive and expensive options list.

As for production man hours I would imagine Tesla man hours are far less than VW.

okay and what happens when you even get to the Tesla option list, let alone “start” Just shrug shoulder and click order?

I’d be careful when you use the word imagine when thinking of Tesla staff and trying to compare apples to apples.

 

[Stu999]

okay and what happens when you even get to the Tesla option list, let alone “start” Just shrug shoulder and click order?

I’d be careful when you use the word imagine when thinking of Tesla staff and trying to compare apples to apples.

What happens is there are about five options depending on which model you start from, paint colour (£1,100), wheels (£1,000 - certain models), auto pilot, self driving (admittedly very expensive) and interior.

Why would I be careful about saying I’m not 100% sure on something? My understanding is Tesla use a lot of pressings to minimise human input to the production process. Happy to get more information on it or VWs process. Not sure where “careful” comes into it.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Exactly, Tesla doesn’t have options really does it?, this simplification helps keep overhead down, even the paint colours being limited so BMW having a wide range of options is just choice to improve a product further and generate revenue - it should not in my view be frowned upon.

In terms of production.. as I understand things they have a toxic work culture, big hours, short holiday, no union representation. So comparing to the VW “legacy automakers” are crap narrative isn’t fair, VW continues to provide a pension for many decades of previous employees for a start.

 

[Stu999]

I’m not saying VW are rubbish by any means but just on an EV perspective they have to start with that legacy whereas Tesla could go from a blank sheet of paper to maximise efficiency. Not saying either is right or wrong.

 

[Kenai]

The Tesla is cheaper before you even start with BMW’s extensive and expensive options list.

As your typical German car options list goes, the i4 M50 seems pretty small. In fact outside of the standard colours/trim/wheels I think the only real cost option extra is the Icon laser lights, which I'm not sure the M3P has an equivalent to?

Edit - nvm, mobile display needed another button press to show all the option packs

 

[SDK^]

The Tesla is cheaper before you even start with BMW’s extensive and expensive options list.

The M50 starts at £64k but that includes any exterior colour and leather colour choice.
The Tesla M3P starts at £60k but then if you don't want white that is extra, as is white interior.
Means both are about the same cost.

 

[nsmalley]

The M50 starts at £64k but that includes any exterior colour and leather colour choice.
The Tesla M3P starts at £60k but then if you don't want white that is extra, as is white interior.
Means both are about the same cost.

Like for like spec is nearer 70k for m50. https://configure.bmw.co.uk/en_GB/configid/kgzs0khi

 

[pioneer2000]

God that M50 is woeful, they really must be so far behind to only be able to cobble together an electric vehicle that outside and in is still based on an ICE design language. Why on earth does it have outlines for exhaust pipes and massive blanked off grille vents everywhere! lol. Interior is typical BMW junk, so generic and uninspired.

Mercedes are the only traditional manufacturer that have shown any ability to compete with the newer EV brands.