EV general discussion

[b0rn2sk8]

I think Tesla owners would have less issue with the ‘trial’ if the chargers were actually designed to be used by cars with charge ports in locations other than the rear near side corner. Most cars just don’t have their charge port in that location.

The issue is that when most non-Tesla’s turn up the a supercharger, they use one plug and block another because they have no choice to use the station. On some layouts, some cars have to park sideways on, potentially blocking 3.

You combine that with the ‘urinal rule’ for the older V2 chargers to avoid power, you could turn up to a charger with seemingly lots of capacity and not actually be able to get on it.

They need to have a proper rethink of their stall design going forward but the ludicrous thing is that they are continuing to install sites using the standard design while knowingly opening it up to non Tesla’s.

It just makes no sense unless the plan is for them to be ‘open’ but make it suck a pain in the backside to use for non Tesla’s so non of them actually use it.

 

[chanjy]

Why crazy. It’s a proper car that’s also EV.

Remember 150kW charging etc are all peak numbers. The charging profile is more interesting.

Not sure looking at the charging profile vs say an EV6 is going to make that any better as a comparison tbh.

If you do a lot of longer distance driving then it could be a problem. Expect 45 minutes from 10% - 80% and the charging speed will be quite poor above 80%. So in essence you have a 170 mile motorway range after the first leg. Though this is true of most EVs but most will give more miles per minute than the I-Pace due to the better efficiency. A Model Y for example will take about 27 - 30 minutes to add about 190 miles of range. An I-Pace will take about 45 minutes to add 150 miles. Both times are assuming decent weather and temperatures because many EVs suffer from coldgating. Add another 20 minutes, or even treble the total these times in cold wet winter weather. This means charging in colder weather can significantly impact charging times.

An extreme example is the Ioniq 5 or EV6 giving 18 minutes to charge from 10% - 80% in perfect conditions. In winter conditions I have seen some charging tests take well over an hour on the same cars.

Don't just look at the time it takes but the range it adds per minute and how the charging curve looks over the entire range and in different seasons.

If you do mostly normal commutes and drives, the I-Pace is a perfect car. I have an I-Pace on order but it fits my driving profile perfectly as I rarely drive more than 200 miles.

Some good points here. TBF I think it would be fine in Summer but Winter range worries me a bit too much. We do quite regular day trips from Guildford to say Cambridge and back, Dorset and back, Midlands and back. It would be nice to be able to do those without a pit stop if possible.

EV6 is the next best alternative but the EV6 and Ioniq 5 boots are just that bit smaller which is putting me off. iX3 might tick all the boxes (150kW charging and enough space for a family trip) but not sure of the looks.

Reality is probably will hold onto the diesel (a 67 plate but which I only bought at the start of the year lol) for the rarer long journeys for a couple of years and try and get around as much as we can in the e208. But I'd love to go all electric and the growing charger networks are giving me confidence that it'll be a non-issue within about 12 months.

 

[chanjy]

It’s the driving fast bit that matters not the parking fast

With a long journey in an EV sometimes the tortoise beats the hare

 

[Jonnycoupe]

I’ll use my Honda for one of those 800mile non stop trips.


i never charge IPACE above 70% Rapid charging for this reason. I remember being next to a Etron at a Shell recharger. The amount at the end to fill it with fairly comical range did even the score a little. That’s said in 5 years I bet the range gap grows further from the etron being DC thrashed

 

[b0rn2sk8]

We officially went all electric today after selling our second ICE car and we are not going to replace it. As much as it pained my wife to sell a car she has loved to dive for the last 7 years, owning it just didn't make any sense anymore and it was better to let it go to someone who was actually going to drive it.

 

[chanjy]

We officially went all electric today after selling our second ICE car and we are not going to replace it. As much as it pained my wife to sell a car she has loved to dive for the last 7 years, owning it just didn't make any sense anymore and it was better to let it go to someone who was actually going to drive it.

One car household then? What is it you have?

 

[b0rn2sk8]

One car household then? What is it you have?

Yes, one car household now, the second car just wasn’t getting used and had no prospect of that changing any time soon.

We have a Model 3 SR+, it’s all the car we need.

 

[LordVader]

Also I know I’m crazy for even considering this but there’s some good used I Pace incentives going on at the moment. If it had 150kW charging I’d be seriously tempted to trade in the old diesel.

Care to share any examples?

 

[Simon]

Would be interested in why 150kW is a big issue. Most people never need one. On the rare occasion you do you only gonna be charging to 80% before it’s an issue anyway

 

[chanjy]

Care to share any examples?

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Retail is £4k over the WBAC valuation but there's a £3.8k deposit allowance (obviously settle the finance, don't want to be paying 10% APR) so it's close to trade price. I'd bet you can get a few grand off as well since it's been listed since Jan

 

[chanjy]

Would be interested in why 150kW is a big issue. Most people never need one. On the rare occasion you do you only gonna be charging to 80% before it’s an issue anyway

A 45 minute stop vs a 20 minute stop is a decent difference if you're rushing to get home with impatient kids. 'Rare' depends on your journey profile doesn't it?

 

[Simon]

Well yes. Was kind of wondering how often you do 200miles without stopping ( especially with kids anyway)

Not sure how 150kW is less than half the charging time of 100kW either but do you really need a full charge or just a 10min stop for that extra 50miles ?

 

[Jonnycoupe]

A 45 minute stop vs a 20 minute stop is a decent difference if you're rushing to get home with impatient kids. 'Rare' depends on your journey profile doesn't it?

100 compared to 150 does not give the time delta you are predicting! The Hyundais seem really struggle to get above 100kW during winter anyway.

Over 250miles with kids in is rare in 99.9% of peoples lives. Rushing with kids in a car. Tut tut

20k in mine, brilliant car and over the moon I’ve been renewed on Octopus Go for another year at 5.5p. Who cares about efficiency now

 

[chanjy]

Well yes. Was kind of wondering how often you do 200miles without stopping ( especially with kids anyway)

Not sure how 150kW is less than half the charging time of 100kW either but do you really need a full charge or just a 10min stop for that extra 50miles ?

Just to give you one example, we are driving to Nantes this summer for a 2 week holiday. Ferry is Newhaven - Dieppe so another 500km after we get off the ferry. Obviously that will be the extreme use case but would love to be able to do those kinds of trips in an EV eventually.

I Pace doesn't actually charge at 100kW for very long and doesn't preheat the battery. Stops could be shorter than that but they could also be longer. A Tesla going to a Supercharger will avoid that lottery. Having said all that I'm never giving Elon Musk any of my money

 

[chanjy]

100 compared to 150 does not give the time delta you are predicting! The Hyundais seem really struggle to get above 100kW during winter anyway.

Over 250miles with kids in is rare in 99.9% of peoples lives. Rushing with kids in a car. Tut tut

20k in mine, brilliant car and over the moon I’ve been renewed on Octopus Go for another year at 5.5p. Who cares about efficiency now

I'd love to make it work, and I'm sure it would be fine 90% of the time. It's that 10% where people get tired and grumpy that I worry about.

It's not 250 motorway miles at 70mph in Winter, more like 170-180 and I'm thinking of day trips where most destinations don't have charging yet. We'd end up having to do a stop somewhere on top of a 1.5-2 hour hourney each way to see the in laws in Cambridge for example which would be a PITA. Having said that the supercharger station in Cambridge just opened to all brands...

 

[Simon]

Seems it’s 2023 I’ll be going electric. Mini delayed to Jan. sad face

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I wouldn’t get too hung up on the KW speed of the charger anyway. It doesn’t take into account efficiency so it’s only partly. What really matters is how much real range you get for the time you are plugged in.

That’s often not an easy question to answer as there are a lot of variability depending on the cars charging curve, battery temperature and the charger you are plugged into. On paper my Model 3 SR+ is a bit slow on paper but it’s efficiency actually makes adding 100 miles to a relatively low battery is very fast indeed.

Depending on the car there can also be some viability to the charging curve too. The BMS in my Model 3 seems to be happy to take a faster charge when initially plugging in at 50% than what you would get at 50% if initially plugging in at 10%.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

I'd love to make it work, and I'm sure it would be fine 90% of the time. It's that 10% where people get tired and grumpy that I worry about.

It's not 250 motorway miles at 70mph in Winter, more like 170-180 and I'm thinking of day trips where most destinations don't have charging yet. We'd end up having to do a stop somewhere on top of a 1.5-2 hour hourney each way to see the in laws in Cambridge for example which would be a PITA. Having said that the supercharger station in Cambridge just opened to all brands...

Agree, but I would argue its more like 200 miles in winter; I did Edinburgh city (Brittania) to MFG Wigan in October non stop. But can we just check something…

You, who doesn’t have an IPACE yet is telling someone who has had an IPACE for 18months as part of their role in JLR engineering team how the car works?

 

[Journey]

I wouldn’t get too hung up on the KW speed of the charger anyway. It doesn’t take into account efficiency so it’s only partly. What really matters is how much real range you get for the time you are plugged in.

Hence why I still love my Ioniq even though it's max charging rate with a warm pack is only 42-47kW, and then it drops down to the mid-30's from about 47%, as it is so darn efficient you can still go a good distance with a small amount of charging time thrown in when you do a pit stop rather than a full-on lunch break or similar.

 

[ICDP]

I wouldn’t get too hung up on the KW speed of the charger anyway. It doesn’t take into account efficiency so it’s only partly. What really matters is how much real range you get for the time you are plugged in.

That’s often not an easy question to answer as there are a lot of variability depending on the cars charging curve, battery temperature and the charger you are plugged into. On paper my Model 3 SR+ is a bit slow on paper but it’s efficiency actually makes adding 100 miles to a relatively low battery is very fast indeed.

Depending on the car there can also be some viability to the charging curve too. The BMS in my Model 3 seems to be happy to take a faster charge when initially plugging in at 50% than what you would get at 50% if initially plugging in at 10%.

I've only been driving an EV (E-Tron 50) for about 20 months but in that period I have come to understand the actual important metrics of EV ownership.

Peak charging speed means nothing if it lasts for 5 minutes and coldgates substantially in winter.
How far will you get at 100% SoC in different driving conditions and trip types.
How long does it take to add 50, 100, 150 or even 200 miles at various rapid chargers in different seasons.
You only need to add what charge you need to finish your trip.

None of the above matters if you charge at home and 99% of your trips are short school runs and or commutes. I will not instantly dismiss an EV because it means I have to hang around a charging station for an extra 30 minutes once or twice a year.