EV general discussion

[Amp34]

I’m in two minds about VWs robot idea.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cne...agen-electric-car-charging-robots-autonomous/

On the one hand it seems like an expensive waste of batteries, but equally it may be a great option for retrofitting existing car parks for charging.

As discussed earlier (airport example) car parks are realistically going to need to install charging points in most of their spots in future, but retrofitting existing car parks is going to cost millions and cause significant disruption. A couple of dozen of those in car parks of a few hundred may be significantly cheaper. I guess economics will depend on the ratio of cars to robots needed.

A nifty idea though.

 

[Journey]

Less than £5.8k for a 40kWh Leaf - HERE

Handy if you don't want to commit to a big expense, but want to try an EV.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Less than £5.8k for a 40kWh Leaf - HERE

Handy if you don't want to commit to a big expense, but want to try an EV.

wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a second hand one and then sell it on after? electric cars don't have much servicing costs, etc.

 

[Journey]

wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a second hand one and then sell it on after? electric cars don't have much servicing costs, etc.

I doubt it, even if you took out a 2.99% loan for the £26k, you'll be adding ~£850 of interest to pay over 24 months from a 5 year loan. Then you'd need to sell the car for £21,000 just to be at the same point. Given that 40kWh Leaf's from 2018 are selling for around £21,000 now, I think after another two years of EV's being released and developed getting £18,000 would be an achievement.

If you are talking a old 24kWh leaf then sure, of course it will be cheaper, but it's not really the same experience at all.

 

[Russinating]

Just received an email about this from Octopus EV: https://www.octopusev.com/eo

£369 for a fully installed charger seems like a bargain. I like the idea of a universal charger too, rather than having to coil the fixed/tethered cable around.

I've emailed to ask what the charging rate and port type is.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Most people advise you go with a tethered cable, you’ll soon get bored of having to lock your cable away constantly so it doesn’t get stolen, they are really expensive to replace. It will be the new smash the window and take the sat nav in a few years. Every car in the UK comes with a type 2 plug part from Gen1 Nissan Leaf so the ‘universal plug’ has little value in reality.

You’ll also want to keep a cable in your car so you can use public chargers, constantly having to get it out and coiling it up to put back in the bottom of the boot will be a chore.

 

[chaparral]

Just received an email about this from Octopus EV: https://www.octopusev.com/eo

£369 for a fully installed charger seems like a bargain. I like the idea of a universal charger too, rather than having to coil the fixed/tethered cable around.

I've emailed to ask what the charging rate and port type is.

Am really surprised there no wireless charging in this day & age

I remember some years ago there was going be wireless charging for cars, What happened

 

[jpaul]

wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a second hand one and then sell it on after? electric cars don't have much servicing costs, etc.

it's the limited 6k, 125miles/week, that, that offers, that make it cheap - I'd need twice that, where 2nd hand would be more competitive;
that company must be waging on a lucrative 2nd hand market wave in 2 years time, especially london where you'd be paying congestion tax for anything other than pure ev.

£369 for a fully installed charger seems like a bargain. I like the idea of a universal charger too, rather than having to coil the fixed/tethered cable around.

wouldn't it be a false economy not to go for 22KWh, for £2-300 more, whilst subsidy remains, if you'll be living in the same place.

 

[Journey]

that company must be waging on a lucrative 2nd hand market wave in 2 years time

That company? They are a broker who help you lease cars that are being offered by a dealer network/fleet lease/manufacturer. They don't care if it's worth 20p in 2 years, they get their money upfront, and then they are done with you. However yes, the EV market is going to be a very buoyant market in a couple of years and I'd bet when they end up at auction they'll fetch very close to what they are expecting.

it's the limited 6k, 125miles/week, that, that offers, that make it cheap

Not entirely true as the excess mileage cost is 7ppm inc. VAT, which for the extra 125 miles you'd need would be £8.75 per week, or £37.91 per month, or £455 per year, adding only £910 to the total cost over 2 year for 12k miles per year.
Lease deals often work in your favour if you under specify mileage if they have a low cost per mile, and with PCH there is no penalty for going way over only the cost of the actual miles at the contracted rate.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Am really surprised there no wireless charging in this day & age

I remember some years ago there was going be wireless charging for cars, What happened

Ignoring all the of the practical challenges for manufacturing, retrofitting and using one, its just simply too expensive compared to a plug. It’s not something many people would be willing to pay thousands for and have their drive dug up at the same time to install it.

 

[Journey]

Ignoring all the of the practical challenges for manufacturing, retrofitting and using one, its just simply too expensive compared to a plug. It’s not something many people would be willing to pay thousands for and have their drive dug up at the same time to install it.

Although Qualcomm are making some great in-roads (pardon the pun ) with reasonably fast charging at ~20kWh, they've been working with Formula-E to make it better/advertise it, and the target market from what I've read is places like Supermarket car parks, service stations, and other high volume/throughput places where you'll add a few kWh in the time you are there, but not specifically for charging.

I am sure you'll be able to get it put in your drive way if you want, but given you have to park exactly on top of it then it becomes less advantageous, especially if you have more than one vehicle on your drive. To me a cable makes more sense given the cost implications of wireless for both the charger and the parts required for the car.

 

[Nasher]

Am really surprised there no wireless charging in this day & age

I remember some years ago there was going be wireless charging for cars, What happened

There is a lot of energy loss with that afaik.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Am really surprised there no wireless charging in this day & age

I remember some years ago there was going be wireless charging for cars, What happened

really?

maybe 1 in 1000 own an electric vehicle and yet you are surprised wireless charging isn't available?

maybe once the figure is 9 in 10 then i would be surprised. but not at this moment in time

 

[Jonnycoupe]

You can spec it with the 530e from memory. It’s a cabled item to park on the drive much like a Ghostbuster trap.

 

[sovietspybob]

it's the limited 6k, 125miles/week, that, that offers, that make it cheap - I'd need twice that, where 2nd hand would be more competitive;
that company must be waging on a lucrative 2nd hand market wave in 2 years time, especially london where you'd be paying congestion tax for anything other than pure ev.


wouldn't it be a false economy not to go for 22KWh, for £2-300 more, whilst subsidy remains, if you'll be living in the same place.

That wouldn't be an option for most people with a domestic single phase supply though, that's limited to 32amp/7KW for 99% of households in the UK.

 

[Russinating]

Most people advise you go with a tethered cable, you’ll soon get bored of having to lock your cable away constantly so it doesn’t get stolen, they are really expensive to replace. It will be the new smash the window and take the sat nav in a few years. Every car in the UK comes with a type 2 plug part from Gen1 Nissan Leaf so the ‘universal plug’ has little value in reality.

You’ll also want to keep a cable in your car so you can use public chargers, constantly having to get it out and coiling it up to put back in the bottom of the boot will be a chore.

Proper first world problem when spending 2 minutes getting a cable out to charge your electric car is a chore . I don't have a driveway and the charger will be adjacent to my door; Tesla, who's charger I was going to get, cleverly hide the coiled wire in almost all promo videos because it's really untidy and quite wide. I actually prefer the port for neatness, security (the port cap can be locked) and safety (doesn't stand out to ejits as much as a Tesla charger) and I think I'm happy to sacrifice the couple of minutes each time to get the cable out. Quicker than filling my diesel up, let alone travelling to a pump.

Am really surprised there no wireless charging in this day & age

I remember some years ago there was going be wireless charging for cars, What happened

You joking? As above, hugely energy inifficient and uneconomical to install anyway. Only the super rich would go to the effort and expense of digging up their driveway... which I don't have anyway.

wouldn't it be a false economy not to go for 22KWh, for £2-300 more, whilst subsidy remains, if you'll be living in the same place.

As above, 99% of UK homes - including mine - are limited to 7kW. It's better for the battery to charge at a slower rate anyway, so wherever possible you'd opt to do that (ie at home, overnight).

 

[jpaul]

that's limited to 32amp/7KW for 99% of households in the UK.

ok hadn't realised it was rare ... so since a Model3 apparently takes 13hrs @7kw for a recharge (but you wouldn't be empty every night)
this UK (european wide ?) limitation may restrict use of heavier suvs with bigger batteries,
if you live rurally and want to use the car in the evenings too - lol - having long enough to recharge could be an issue.

edit ..post 9pm - could be a two person ev household so 2x32A on a home consumer unit 60-100A

 

[Journey]

Yes, but very simple maths tells you that if you plug in a vehicle for 10 hours you'll get ~70kW of charge, and in an efficient vehicle that 70kW will do 280 miles at 4mpkWh.

So you arrive home at 18:00, plug it in for 90 minutes, go out again in it until 21:00, plug it in for 60 minutes, then go out again until 23:00 and once again plug it in again, leaving in it all night, until 06:00 so an additional 7 full hours. So from 18:00 until 06:00 you've managed 9.5 hours of charging, which is enough for 266 additional miles, less what was consumed while away from your 'home' socket.

Obviously the sums vary based on the individual scenario, but 7kW charging in good enough for the vast majority of use cases. You also need to factor in that even if it is not, as time passes more and more of the destinations people visit will have charging points, so while you are away from home you get some free KWh from Tesco as you are a Clubcard+ member, or the local Gym gives you access with your card at a reduced rate. etc.

I'll add an edit too: Also I feel bad for anyone who can't go a day without charging at home from almost empty to full, even if you assume they were being inefficient and get 200 miles of range, they'd be doing over 70,000 miles per year. I'd be worrying less about the way I'd charge and more about the fact I was spending about 35 hours a week in the car assuming a 40 mph average speed.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Anything above ~7.5kW in the UK will required a 3 phase supply and then to a max of, you guessed it, 22kW.

 

[Russinating]

ok hadn't realised it was rare ... so since a Model3 apparently takes 13hrs @7kw for a recharge (but you wouldn't be empty every night)
this UK (european wide ?) limitation may restrict use of heavier suvs with bigger batteries,
if you live rurally and want to use the car in the evenings too - lol - having long enough to recharge could be an issue.

edit ..post 9pm - could be a two person ev household so 2x32A on a home consumer unit 60-100A

Are you even considering an EV? I'm all for an open discussion with viewpoints from all sides but it's kinda like someone who's diehard Xbox constantly posting in a PS5 thread.

EVs aren't for everyone, and yeah, if you live in the country, miles from any public chargers, and regularly do 100 miles a day, then an EV probably isn't for you (yet). It's not really a relevant point for the majority of the population though, and certainly where EVs are needed most (where air pollution is above legal limits).

I'll charge at home @ 7KW overnight because it's incredibly cheap and I don't use the car every day. For long journeys, or those you need to commence without enough charge, you stop en-route or as you're leaving at a 25-50KW public charger. There's a guy over on the TMC forum who did a 2,000 mile round trip over Christmas with multiple public stops and no issues.