EV general discussion

[Draeger]

The BBC article on the discussions around EV drivers paying a new levy..........the article states 'Drivers of petrol and diesel vehicles pay fuel duty, so the transition to electric vehicles leaves a shortfall in government revenues'

Hang on a minute - that statement suggests I don't pay any form of tax on my fuel. I thought as an EV driver I already paid tax on the electricity I charge my car with, at least the last electric bill I looked at said there was VAT on top of it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but thats tax on the 'fuel' I use

 

[Yaayuh!]

The BBC article on the discussions around EV drivers paying a new levy..........the article states 'Drivers of petrol and diesel vehicles pay fuel duty, so the transition to electric vehicles leaves a shortfall in government revenues'

Hang on a minute - that statement suggests I don't pay any form of tax on my fuel. I thought as an EV driver I already paid tax on the electricity I charge my car with, at least the last electric bill I looked at said there was VAT on top of it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but thats tax on the 'fuel' I use

Fuel duty and VAT are 2 different things.

When you by petrol/diesel you're paying fuel duty as well as VAT.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

you are also paying VAT on the fuel duty.

 

[Draeger]

Ah.....okay. Still bloody annoying!!!

 

[Junglist]

Ah.....okay. Still bloody annoying!!!

You can join me in the umbrage corner. The place where we don't let facts or context get in the way of our annoyances.

 

[SDK^]

I'm happy to contribute my fair share

ICE is a mode of transport the Government wants to eradicate, so they will not be getting a 'free lunch' for too much longer. In France they are taxing new ICE vehicles up to €60,000

 

[john andersen]

The BBC article on the discussions around EV drivers paying a new levy..........the article states 'Drivers of petrol and diesel vehicles pay fuel duty, so the transition to electric vehicles leaves a shortfall in government revenues'

Hang on a minute - that statement suggests I don't pay any form of tax on my fuel. I thought as an EV driver I already paid tax on the electricity I charge my car with, at least the last electric bill I looked at said there was VAT on top of it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but thats tax on the 'fuel' I use

They can start with stopping the subsidy to the FF

Fossil fuel subsidies in the UK: Who pays, who profits? - Global Justice Now

Summary and demands • The UK government currently provides an estimated £17.5 billion in fossil fuel subsidies and support per year. This figure includes subsidies for the fossil fuel industry […]

www.globaljustice.org.uk

17.5 billions £ to be saved there, 1 black hole stuffed.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I’m usually the first in the queue to bash fossil fuels but that number is highly dubious.

It includes only charging 5% VAT on gas and electricity rather than 20%, 5p/litre off fuel duty, not implementing the fuel duty escalator, relief in the climate change levy for energy intensive industries.

None of these things are subsidies, the things I do agree are subsidies:
CCS funding
Additional tax corporation relief for oil and gas producers (mostly targeted at decommissioning costs).

 

[Mysterae_]

Looks like we'll be taking our car with us over to the UK for Christmas. What's a good app (or whatever) to find chargers in England? Do they mostly need an app to pay or can you just pay by card?

Have a look at the Fastned website and app, it might be worth it for you to subscribe for the duration of your journey. They have chargers all over Europe as well as the UK.

For a subscription of £9.98 per month you'll pay 52p per kWh which is 30% off their normal price of 74p per kWh, UK prices.

Fastned were in the news recently as they've got planning to build the UK's first indoor drive-through ultra-rapid charging hub in Aberdeen. I reckon this is a gamechanger and we'll see more of the same in the future.

 

[Martynt74]

Car plans changed again! The Skoda garage was giving me an awful interest rate and then adding various fees on top. I then found a decent deal on an ex demo BYD Seal in the top Design spec. The spec sheet is huge and has a pretty decent overall range too.

 

[Jono8]

Road charging for EVs makes sense in the longer term, but shorter term it just disincentives the take up of EVs just as they need to encourage it. They need to introduce it for all vehicles or actually raise fuel duty for once if they're going to do it.

Yep. Its a stupid idea. Car buyers will see this and be put off, even if it would still be cheaper than petrol when charging at home.

They will see an extra tax and be put off.

This will stunt the uptake of EVs.

 

[sigma]

Car plans changed again! The Skoda garage was giving me an awful interest rate and then adding various fees on top. I then found a decent deal on an ex demo BYD Seal in the top Design spec. The spec sheet is huge and has a pretty decent overall range too.

And this is why the Chinese are going to takeover the market. Already have, I guess...

Nothing against the fact that they're Chinese. More that they're state funded.

 

[ICDP]

And this is why the Chinese are going to takeover the market. Already have, I guess...

Nothing against the fact that they're Chinese. More that they're state funded.

BYD are not technically owned by the state but they are heavily subsidised by the state.

 

[Yaayuh!]

BYD are not technically owned by the state but they are heavily subsidised by the state.

Like a weapon against foreign economy

 

[sigma]

BYD are not technically owned by the state but they are heavily subsidised by the state.

Yeah state subsidised is what I meant. It's going to be the death of variety. I sat in a few run of the mill Chinese cars not long ago, they're cheap and cheaply made. No thanks. But then the market wants cheap.

Usually I'd say "market forces" but it's not is it, it's state forces.

And the UK Gov seemingly don't care.

Again, nothing against the Chinese, they're pretty smart for investing in the tech so long ago. Something for the automotive history books.

 

[Martynt74]

Yeah state subsidised is what I meant. It's going to be the death of variety. I sat in a few run of the mill Chinese cars not long ago, they're cheap and cheaply made. No thanks. But then the market wants cheap.

Usually I'd say "market forces" but it's not is it, it's state forces.

And the UK Gov seemingly don't care.

Again, nothing against the Chinese, they're pretty smart for investing in the tech so long ago. Something for the automotive history books.

Which ones have you sat in as this BYD to me feels far superior than my old Lexus NX from a quality standpoint and leaps above the equivalent Skoda Elroq.

 

[jpaul]

Car plans changed again! The Skoda garage was giving me an awful interest rate and then adding various fees on top. I then found a decent deal on an ex demo BYD Seal in the top Design spec. The spec sheet is huge and has a pretty decent overall range too.

is the insurance competitive with the BYD vs skoda -
but no signs of Spanish government budget having a similar mileage/weight based ev charge too ?


-----

new twingo video 1200Kg, not sure about the back window - reminds me of the minions, 80hp/175nm
(french video discusses suspension & battery)
renault 5 outsold tesla in france like the uk

Spoiler: top 10

Top 10 EVs in France for October, 2025​

	Models	October 2025	Cumulative total 2025
1	Renault 5	4,551	26,285
2	Peugeot e-208	2,436	10,319
3	Renault Scenic	1,670	12,520
4	Tesla Model Y	1,660	17,326
5	Peugeot e-2008	1,630	5,428
6	Citroën e-C3	1,391	12,956
7	Renault 4	1,201	3,982
8	Renault Megane	1,166	6,942
9	Skoda Elroq	891	5,704
10	BMW iX1	812	6,769

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Yeah state subsidised is what I meant. It's going to be the death of variety. I sat in a few run of the mill Chinese cars not long ago, they're cheap and cheaply made. No thanks. But then the market wants cheap.

Usually I'd say "market forces" but it's not is it, it's state forces.

And the UK Gov seemingly don't care.

Again, nothing against the Chinese, they're pretty smart for investing in the tech so long ago. Something for the automotive history books.

It’s not that the government don’t care, you have to put the U.K. car industry into context in that it’s tiny on the world stage.

There is a cost benefit analysis to be done, that has been done and we have the answer, the costs of protecting it outweigh the benefits so there has beeen no action to put tariffs on Chinese cars.

BYD alone produce twice as many EVs as all manufacturers produce in the U.K. across all fuel types. Just BYDs output across all fuel types is 5X that of all manufacturers in the U.K.

JLR is the only major player based here. There are other manufacturers here but 80-90% of cars are exported to Europe so what they do with tariffs as a much bigger impact.

The reality is Brexit has done more damage to domestic car production than any Chinese manufacture could to date and I expect most of them have been looking at an exit strategy since the 2016 vote.

Edit: 90% of what uk buyers buy are imported.

 

[Mysterae_]

Car plans changed again! The Skoda garage was giving me an awful interest rate and then adding various fees on top. I then found a decent deal on an ex demo BYD Seal in the top Design spec. The spec sheet is huge and has a pretty decent overall range too.

Good choice . You've probably already read my thread where I was considering and eventually bought a Seal. I'd check if you can get the Excellence model if a HUD, all wheel drive and a better suspension setup is worth it to you.

 

[inogen]

Road charging for EVs makes sense in the longer term, but shorter term it just disincentives the take up of EVs just as they need to encourage it. They need to introduce it for all vehicles or actually raise fuel duty for once if they're going to do it.

How about scrapping "road tax" and fuel duty and then just taxing everyone per mile with EVs at a lower rate.