It's probably also driven in part by the fact the fuel economy numbers in the cars themselves are often absolute nonsense - do a 200 mile journey in hybrid mode and at the end it'll tell you you've achieved 100mpg and 10 mi/kWh - neither figure in isolation is even remotely representative of what the ICE or the EV drivetrain have actually done, nor do they make much sense together to most people, so it's hard to tell people what sort of fuel economy you're achieving.
EV general discussion
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Just done some very rough sums this morning, between getting my car at the end of July and then my wife's at the start of August we've saved over £1k in fuel already. In reality it'll be a bit more than that based on the figures I used to calculate fuel cost.
Might actually be able to get away somewhere warm for a week with the little one next year based on those savings
Might actually be able to get away somewhere warm for a week with the little one next year based on those savings
Soldato
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Hyundai want i think £29 a year after the warranty expires at 5 years for my car. You can happily not pay it, all you lose is ability to do remote in the app stuff like precondition etc.
I feel that's a fair price
Soldato
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if they want to charge that as an option and maybe give some advanced features that is fine, however i do think it is rubbish that all cars cant at least connect to your home wifi as an option and therefore get basic features like charging levels and pre conditioning when sat on your own driveway. At that point the expense of a backend to justify continual costs goes out of the window.
Also on top of that, they could just allow us to use a prepaid sim card to connect to our phone. how much data does this really need? a prepaid £10 data sim i suspect would last a while if all it was doing was connecting to my phone to tell me charging levels and when to turn on the air con.
making some large server based system and then using that as an argument as to why they needs to charge for it sounds a bit to me like creating a problem in need of a paid solution for the sake of it.
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You were spending over £4k a year on fuel previously? What were you driving?Just done some very rough sums this morning, between getting my car at the end of July and then my wife's at the start of August we've saved over £1k in fuel already. In reality it'll be a bit more than that based on the figures I used to calculate fuel cost.
Might actually be able to get away somewhere warm for a week with the little one next year based on those savings
But isn't the right metric the total money you're spending on cars? Even if you bought them outright then you should factor in depreciation costJust done some very rough sums this morning, between getting my car at the end of July and then my wife's at the start of August we've saved over £1k in fuel already. In reality it'll be a bit more than that based on the figures I used to calculate fuel cost.
Might actually be able to get away somewhere warm for a week with the little one next year based on those savings
Not sure how other cars work but when mine is ‘off’ everything but a basic 2G modem and low power Bluetooth is off/in standby to save power.
The car gets ‘woken up’ via SMS in the back end (or by unlocking it) and then all the higher power radios/wifi, computers etc wake up from standby and connect to the internet and the app then works.
If it didn’t do that, you’d probably find everyone moaning about phantom drain and wrecked 12v batteries.
Soldato
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which is precisely why i have a problem with potential new charges going backwards on cars already purchased.
Many of us who bought our cars knowingly paid a very significant premium because one of the cases made for EVs was that, yes they cost more up front, however over the course of ownership that would pay for itself with cheaper running costs due to no vehicle tax and cheaper "fueling" costs.
they already bait and switched us on the £190 retrospective car tax (whilst not retrospectively taxing old oilburners)......
This is why any cost per mile should be on new cars only, purchases made AFTER what ever the announcement is tomorrow imo.
1 person in this thread said "just sell the EV and buy an old diesel then".... which again is totally missing the point that many of us bought accepting the depreciation because of the cheap running costs.............. and also missing the point that those who can run an EV effectively should be doing so.... esp whilst running an EV isnt practical for everybody.
factoring in depreciation an EV will still pay for itself for most people over the life of the car - even without new car tax breaks which not all of us can get.
however depending on what is announced this week, that is about to change imo, and it is likely to have a devastating affect on the price of 2nd hand vehicles (which may be good for those who are looking to buy a cheap car but not good for those who already bought)
Nothing fancy but I do nearly 20k miles a year and my wife's mileage has increased as well to 16kish. Petrol numbers were based on getting approx. 400 miles to a tank and it costing roughly £55 for a full tank.
Probably but like I said just a very rough "oh that's nice" calculation based on not seeing hundreds of pounds a month no longer draining out of my account into the tanks.
Fixed
Yup, definitely going to factor into my decision as to what I'll be getting when my lease is up!
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If you want a complete comparison, yes. Depreciation is harder to calculate though, and happens with every car anyway.
I saved over 4 grand in fuel over the two years and 35k miles I drove my Polestar, but as I was forced to buy it near the peak of stupid used car prices in 2022 (wrote off my old 2016 E Class) when prices had started coming down the depreciation when I traded it in last month was massive, and far outweighed the savings in fuel.
Ironically, I would have been financially better off buying a slightly older ICE Mercedes again as it would have kept its value much more than the Polestar did! However, I took the chance to get into EV’s and am now in an EQC which will do till the new E Class is released and on the used market.
All cars are black holes for money one way or the other - I just love the way EV’s drive, the cheapness of running them and wouldn’t go back to ICE.
I wouldn't go back to ICE either but just pointing out that man maths applies to EV and ICE drivers doesn't it
Again very quick back of fag packet maths. Based just on my mileage currently I'm looking at saving approx. £2k a year on fuel. ignoring the fact I now only need to service it every 2 years and not every 10k miles and any other savings. Therefore as long as the car is still worth around £5k in 4.5 years time I've not lost anything the fuel saving has just covered depreciation and given me a much nicer driving experience.
I'm also ignoring the depreciation of my previous Ibiza which I PCP'd brand new in 2024, which I was planning on keeping post PCP until I went EV.
So yeah unless something crazy happens and it's worth nothing but scrap or the govt really screw us with added taxes it's not going to have been a bad move financially (I think)
I'm also ignoring the depreciation of my previous Ibiza which I PCP'd brand new in 2024, which I was planning on keeping post PCP until I went EV.
So yeah unless something crazy happens and it's worth nothing but scrap or the govt really screw us with added taxes it's not going to have been a bad move financially (I think
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I wouldn't go back to ICE either but just pointing out that man maths applies to EV and ICE drivers doesn't it
Absolutely - I can use man-maths to justify anything one way or another!
Yeah that is some solid mileage so good gains to be made on fuel. Nothing better than taking money that was literally going up in smoke and diverting it into more useful and/or enjoyable things.
That was me and I stand by it if you feel so strongly about the issue.
Honestly, hand on heart, when you decided to buy your heavily depreciated i-Pace did you really think that zero VED was going to be forever?
Don't get me wrong, if I was in your shoes I'd be miffed. On Wednesday however I've got a feeling that £195 a year is going to feel like pocket change to the hits that are incoming!
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Soldato
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I knew about car tax coming in - though was vocally against them going backwards on old EVs when not doing the same with ICE cars (and bear in mind at that time we also had an old diesel with £35 tax but i would have accepted the £190 going on that as well more than it just going on old EVs and not old ICE. but i must admit i did hope a new government may have altered it (and not in the way its looking like they might to be clear).
however the pay per mile thing for EVs only on top of the VED, no i didnt see that coming. add that onto the up to 85p kwh public charging if you need to charge away from home and i am genuinely concerned that IF it comes in on existing 2nd hand cars the government are going to totally screw the EV market.
in truth.... i probably wont go back to an ICE because when the cleaner tech exists and i know it works for us, i would feel irresponsible going back, so despite this i will still buy an other EV going forward probably... but it does not mean i have to agree with it
PS that "heavily depreciated" i-pace still cost way way more than an equivalent ICE i could have bought, and this is the important part imo IF the goal is to get people out of ICE vehicles, and it has still depreciated far more still, but i factored that into it with the cheap running costs which are likely to be removed.
(it also cost more than getting one of the sweet tax dodging brand new cars a lot of people can get)
I wonder if they will get rid of the fuel duty discount which has been applied for petrol / diesel for the last few years? i suspect that 5p per would probably make them more money than 3p per mile on EVs.
of course its possible its all FUD and it wont come in, it wont be the 1st time this government has bottled it on new policies.
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The problem isn't applying VED to EVs, and I (and I would guess most people) would have had no problem with applying it to all EVs sold after a specified future date. It's the retrospectively applying VED to EVs which were originally sold as being exempt which is a bit of a **** move.
Optics probably come into play. EV owners are generally more wealthy and as we keep hearing "those with the broadest shoulders....".
Could be worse @bigmike20vt, you could still have the 350Z and be paying £760!
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Oh yeah i didn't realise old diesel cars got to keep their £20 a year tax?!?!
I thought when we got shafted from 0 up to 195 everyone else did too to equalise the system for everyone?
I thought when we got shafted from 0 up to 195 everyone else did too to equalise the system for everyone?