EV general discussion

brendy said:
What about cars sold mid way through the year between checks, do you end up paying for someone else's previous miles?
Will be fun in NI as MOT tests from the government centres are hard to get already without this rolling in too.
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I'm sure there will be a seamless and perfectly functional online portal, allowing you to log the mileage at point of sale... right?

...right? :confused:
 
Direct link to the consultation proposals - https://assets.publishing.service.g.../Consultation_on_the_Introduction_of_eVED.pdf

Most interesting snippets i've spotted:
Alongside paying their VED each year, under eVED motorists will estimate their mileage for the year ahead, pay an upfront charge based on their estimate or spread their payment across the year, and then submit their actual mileage at the end of the year to trigger a reconciliation. Motorists will have their mileage checked annually, typically during their MOT as is already the case, or for new cars, around their first and second registration anniversary.
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The government recognises that PHEV driving habits vary and that some motorists will drive more or less than 50% in electric mode. However, alternative options would require motorists to report their exact mileage driven in petrol versus electric mode, which is not considered a practical or proportionate approach. A reduced rate for PHEVs strikes the right balance between fairness, protecting motorists’ privacy and minimising administrative burdens on motorists.
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For new cars, as with VED, dealerships will have the option to prepay and bundle eVED mileage into the on-road price of a car. Alternatively, the vehicle owner will be able to make their own arrangements and estimate their mileage for the remainder of the tax period, for eVED purposes.
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As noted above, the government has ruled out charging tax based on when or where people drive, to protect motorists’ privacy. This means mileage driven overseas by UK registered cars will fall into scope of eVED, as with fuel duty, which does not vary on basis of where a car is driven. Since the proportion of UK registered cars driving abroad each year is a small proportion of total cars, it is proportionate to prioritise privacy and simplicity over a system of checks to deduct non-UK mileage.
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The government recognises that the large majority of EVs and PHEVs have in-built vehicle telematics, which monitor various driving activities and are viewable by drivers, vehicle manufacturers, or permitted third parties in some cases. The government will not mandate use of these telematics for administering eVED; however, it welcomes views on how various types of technologies could be used on an opt-in basis in future to simplify the system and reduce administrative burdens on motorists and businesses. Protecting motorists’ privacy as part of eVED is a priority for the government, so any potential technology-based solutions considered in future will only ever be optional.
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For motorists who have underestimated their mileage, DVLA intends to provide a facility to make a single balancing payment or to adjust payments in the following year to enable the liability to bespread.
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Vehicle changes ownership: The mileage already paid for will remain with the vehicle. This mileage – which may be either more or less than the actual mileage accrued at that point, as per the vehicle odometer – will be made visible via DVLA online to the new owner (i.e. the buyer). The government expects the eVED status of the vehicle (whether it is sold with pre-paid mileage or a mileage deficit) to be reflected in the sale price of the vehicle.
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However, the government recognises that the non-alignment of eVED periods and MOTs means that there will be scope for some motorists to declare inaccurate mileage readings without this being immediately apparent. By under-declaring mileage, motorists run the risk of their mileage being subject to an increased rate in future years. Moreover, since the odometer reading will be reflected in the sale price when the vehicle changes ownership, and an official mileage reading is required when a vehicle is scrapped, under-declaration will ultimately always be identified. DVLA are considering options to further mitigate against the potential for delayed declaration and payments.
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Gonna be an absolute **** show :cry:
 
Haggisman said:
I'm sure there will be a seamless and perfectly functional online portal, allowing you to log the mileage at point of sale... right?

...right? :confused:
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And a way to claim back the 100s of miles you've done abroad? Or the mileage that Kev the mechanic did in it when he took it for a spin to diagnose a problem?

Edit:
Just seen the above and that overseas mileage will be subject to this
 
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Mysterae_ said:
They'll soon realise that it'll cost more to govern, be open to avoidance, go against GDPR and will impede their money spinning plan of net zero.
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I can guarantee that testing stations/testers won’t in the slightest be interested in recording people’s mileage.
Also bear in mind the cost of the diagnostic equipment needed to do it, which the government would have to pony up for, plus they’d have to pay us for each check carried out.
It’d cost a fortune and would be abused something rotten.
 
Jiffy said:
Most informative!

"Under the plans, motorists will submit details of miles driven each year at the time their VED is due. A validation check will be then made against the mileage recorded at MOT garages.

For vehicles under 3 years old, the government intends for these cars to attend an additional mileage check at an accredited provider – MOT garages. This would be around their first and second anniversary, but the government is also seeking views through the consultation to confirm whether these additional checks should be required.

These checks would be funded by the government to cover the time taken by testers to carry them out."
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What a crock of ****.

brendy said:
What about cars sold mid way through the year between checks, do you end up paying for someone else's previous miles?
Will be fun in NI as MOT tests from the government centres are hard to get already without this rolling in too.
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It'll be double bubble for the tax, just like the current VED when you sell a car mid-month and buy another the same day. You'll pay up front for a said yearly mileage, decide to sell 6 months in, get a "discounted" amount back, the new owner will pay again, and you'll do the same on the car you buy.

It's ill-conceived, makes owning an EV more complicated for both motorists and the motoring industry.
 
Mysterae_ said:
It'll be double bubble for the tax, just like the current VED when you sell a car mid-month and buy another the same day. You'll pay up front for a said yearly mileage, decide to sell 6 months in, get a "discounted" amount back, the new owner will pay again, and you'll do the same on the car you buy.

It's ill-conceived, makes owning an EV more complicated for both motorists and the motoring industry.
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The more worrying one is that once the process is established for EV's, there's not really any reason why it couldn't be applied to Petrol an Diesel cars, whenever they decide they want to make them more unattractive in order to phase them out :(
 
It is clear that system will never see the light of day but it is fun to rip it to shreds!

Looking at my annual mileage over the last 11 years (yes, I do have a spreadsheet :o ) my mileage has varied between 9200 and 24700 miles a year with my business miles varying between 18% and 72% of those amounts. I wouldn't have a clue how many miles I'd need to pay for up front or ultimately who would be paying for them.

You can tell this is policy derived by people who get driven around in someone else's car!
 
Mysterae_ said:
It'll be double bubble for the tax, just like the current VED when you sell a car mid-month and buy another the same day. You'll pay up front for a said yearly mileage, decide to sell 6 months in, get a "discounted" amount back, the new owner will pay again, and you'll do the same on the car you buy.

It's ill-conceived, makes owning an EV more complicated for both motorists and the motoring industry.
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From @Kenai's post above, it looks like the mileage stays with the car. Gone are the days of asking for a full tank of fuel to sweeten the deal, now it'll be "stick 5k miles on there for me and you've got a deal!"
 
Jiffy said:
Most informative!

"Under the plans, motorists will submit details of miles driven each year at the time their VED is due. A validation check will be then made against the mileage recorded at MOT garages.

For vehicles under 3 years old, the government intends for these cars to attend an additional mileage check at an accredited provider – MOT garages. This would be around their first and second anniversary, but the government is also seeking views through the consultation to confirm whether these additional checks should be required.

These checks would be funded by the government to cover the time taken by testers to carry them out."
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And they’ll of course charge a fortune for these checks. Not a chance the capacity is there. If it becomes a ball ache I’ll just go back to ICE where I don’t have to do this.
 
CaneyJ said:
Its regressive. The 190 tax is a flat rate across the board and a flat per mile basis for whatever you drive.

There is no reward for driving a cheap economic EV compared to a heavier much more inefficient SUV which will damage the roads more and suck more KwH.
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Due to the efficiency of EV's there isn't as much of a difference between a big and heavy EV and a small light EV as there is between comparable ICE vehicles though.
 
I don't get the point of paying it up front. Why not run up a bill and pay it off at the end of the year? No crystal ball gazing and if you change cars you have to settle up before the car becomes saleable, like you would with finance. Or if it is leased, you get billed by the lease company using the same mechanism they would use to reclaim the cost of you damaging it. For those that can't or don't want to pay it in a lump sum split it over the next 12 months so you can start over again the following year.

Still a stupid idea, just one that doesn't require you to predict the future.
 
finally.... there is a point to lugging a motorbike engine around in the back of our car.... i get half price per mile tax! its crazy really...... a PHEV with a good ev range which doesnt need much petrol pays lower tax than a pure EV :/

(mind you it will take a number of years to pull back the luxury car tax fee as well as the years of paying £190 VED!
 
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Haggisman said:
From @Kenai's post above, it looks like the mileage stays with the car. Gone are the days of asking for a full tank of fuel to sweeten the deal, now it'll be "stick 5k miles on there for me and you've got a deal!"
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True, but what's likely to happen is that people will predict their mileage to be 100 miles that year, pay the £3.00 (that will have cost the government £25 or more to collect/enforce) and push the actual mount to the next owner. The new owner will refute the mileage as not theirs, and the system will grind to a halt through backlogs, non-payment and discrepancies.
 
tom_e said:
I wonder how much money they're going to spend figuring out a way to implement pay per mile and how many glaring holes it'll still have :o
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It seems clear to me that the long game is that they will legally require home charger manufacturers automatically to report it to DVLA/HMRC....job done. And public chargers will just add it to the per unit charge at the time of payment, which will then be passed onto the government.
 
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