EV general discussion

LiE said:
www.reuters.com

EU to scrap planned ban on combustion engines, EPP's Weber says

The European Commission will move to scrap plans for an effective ban on new combustion engine cars from 2035, a senior EU lawmaker said on Friday, in what would be a major victory for Germany which has been pressing to protect its automakers.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

Wonder if this has legs.
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The Japanese were always right. Sell to the customer when it is ready not what the bureaucrats shovel down your throat. Let capitalism decide.
 
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90% reduction in emissions, would still mean a hugely electrified car though, so its not a huge win for the fossil fuel lobby.
 
jpaul said:
Chinese(byd) are now having to build their own eu factories to circumvent the tarifs, so their eu penetration is slowed, and equally Stellantis/vag are producing more desirable cars,
so death of the germans seems premature;
it is just KS not imposing similar tarifs which will leave UK out in the cold addicted to chinese metal & it's ongoing maintenance.
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Other than JLR who are foreign owed, what ‘British’ automakers do you think putting tariffs on Chinese will help protect?

I’m still waiting for you to explain this.

It may be news to you but Brits don’t buy British made cars.

80% of the cars Briton’s actually buy are already imported and ~80% of cars produced in Briton are exported. Most of those exports go to the EU.

Chinese cars are largely displacing other imported cars so putting tariffs on makes next to no difference in the U.K. it doesn’t take a genius to work this out.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Other than JLR who are foreign owed, what ‘British’ automakers do you think putting tariffs on Chinese will help protect?
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He didn't say it would protect British manufacturers.

Having our domestic car market potentially dominated by SAIC and Geely may be fine for some, other see that as a cause for concern.
 
lordrobs said:
He didn't say it would protect British manufacturers.

Having our domestic car market potentially dominated by SAIC and Geely may be fine for some, other see that as a cause for concern.
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But the only reason to put tariffs on is to protect British manufacturers.

Putting them on when you already import 80% of cars sold mostly benefits other countries manufacturing and not the UK.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
But the only reason to put tariffs on is to protect British manufacturers.

Putting them on when you already import 80% of cars sold mostly benefits other countries manufacturing and not the UK.
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I don't agree that is the only reason you would do it. If you were concerned about a critical infrastructure, such as your domestic car market, being dominated by one state you may choose to put in place some restrictions to mitigate that and keep a more diverse supply chain. Especially if there were concerns about the state in question and their long-term intent.

Depends whether you think China are massively subsidising their own car manufacturers (some of which are state controlled) so we can continue to benefit from cheap cars that undercut those from our European neighbours. Or whether you think their agenda may be slightly different.
 
Car manufacturing isn’t critical infrastructure, if you start setting the bar that low, every industry in the U.K. is critical infrastructure. It also doesn’t mean your car market will not be dominated by one state.

You are not protecting anything with tariffs when you already import 80% of the cars you buy. The vast majority of the benefits of that protectionist policy go elsewhere.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Car manufacturing isn’t critical infrastructure, if you start setting the bar that low, every industry in the U.K. is critical infrastructure. It also doesn’t mean your car market will not be dominated by one state.

You are not protecting anything with tariffs when you already import 80% of the cars you buy. The vast majority of the benefits of that protectionist policy go elsewhere.
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Why do you keep referring to manufacturing in the reply to posts that make no mention of it?!

Whether you agree with it or not if you can't at least see the argument that having our domestic car INDUSTRY (note, not manufacturing) dominated by the Chinese is a less than ideal situation then you probably need to look outside your bubble a little.
 
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b0rn2sk8 said:
Car manufacturing isn’t critical infrastructure, if you start setting the bar that low, every industry in the U.K. is critical infrastructure. It also doesn’t mean your car market will not be dominated by one state.

You are not protecting anything with tariffs when you already import 80% of the cars you buy. The vast majority of the benefits of that protectionist policy go elsewhere.
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JLR is one of the countries biggest exporter by revenue. So, in the midlands especially, it’s critical .
 
lordrobs said:
Why do you keep referring to manufacturing in the reply to posts that make no mention of it?!

Whether you agree with it or not if you can't at least see the argument that having our domestic car INDUSTRY (note, not manufacturing) dominated by the Chinese is a less than ideal situation then you probably need to look outside your bubble a little.
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Because fundamentally tariffs are a policy leaver you can deploy to protect domestic production….

They have very little value outside of this.

Simon said:
800k cars built in the uk per year (and supply chain network ). Important to keep those jobs here
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It’s closer to 700k these days and 80% are exported so tariffs on U.K. imports only protect 20% of that so ~150k.

On the flip side we import approximately 1.7m, so 90% of the market.

Let’s also not forget most of those jobs are at foreign manufacturers or in the supply chain for said foreign manufacturers. Their decisions are based on what’s happening in the European market as a whole as that’s where the production goes.

Slapping tariffs on China would come with retaliation.

Jonnycoupe said:
JLR is one of the countries biggest exporter by revenue. So, in the midlands especially, it’s critical .
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Which is why you don’t want to get into a trade war with China to predominantly protect European and Japanese automakers car production in the U.K. which is mostly exported to the EU.
 
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Dolph said:
and of those, we exported approx 600k last year. (source)

Getting into an automotive trade war based on tariffs is an exceptionally bad idea.
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So keeping manufacturing in country even more critical then. And having a demand from Europe not being replaced by China

It’s 755k plan for 2025 so 800k is closer than 700k born2k8
 
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lordrobs said:
So does that include the £10 billion industry shipping UK made automotive parts overseas, primarily to Europe?
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It’s an export, the EUs determines any barriers in the market for those exports not ours.

In reality, Brexit has done far more long term damage than China will ever do.

Putting tariffs on Chinese cars will likely just result in reciprocal tariffs at best and that will predominantly impact the high value car market and if that’s not enough, they’ll choose something else like U.K. pharmaceuticals to really stick the knife in.

I’ll point you in the direction of the USA as example of how well that will go even over the short term, let alone the long term.
 
Saw my first Genesis this morning a GV60 in a darkish silver with black interior. I thought it was a very nice looking car and used prices aren't bad so that's a maybe in a couple of years time if I get bored of the Leaf (still loving it at the moment).
 
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