EV general discussion

[Shadowness]

Premium parking spaces isn't a thing I've ever thought about as I generally don't public charge. The tax one is obviously the unknown at the moment until they officially decide how they're going to mess up run the pay per mile thing.

I only noticed it as the car park was full, and a busy event was nearby, so parking was going to be a pain, but there were two EV spots empty. So if you had one, park there and charge. Ok you take a hit for paying for charging a bit, but no faffing around trying to find another car park, or waiting for people to leave. (presumably you could tell the charger to charge only a certain amount?)

Yes, hoping the solar panels will really help with the cost increases, as and when/if that happens.

 

[tom_e]

(presumably you could tell the charger to charge only a certain amount?)

You can set the limit in the car but some chargers also have overstay payments to stop exactly this sort of behaviour, they don't want to be losing charging revenue while someone is parked up for 5 hours plugged in but only charged for 10 minutes.

 

[lordrobs]

haha need to do the math...this is very general fag packet maths ofc
assumptions:
all ICE cars need to go to a station to fill up, an ICE car can fill up 0-full tank in about 5mins
not all EVs need to go to a rapid charger to fill up, it takes 30 mins to "fill" 60% of the battery (20-80)
an EV has shorter range...assume half the usable range of an ICE if babying the battery (80-20)
so, for the same range, an EV will need to go to a charger twice vs once for an ICE filling up to full each time

say 100,000 cars for the same distance
ICE = full tank -> drive -> fill -> drive
EV = 80 -> drive -> fill -> drive -> fill -> drive

so, if there were 100% ICE cars vs 100% EVs
ICE = total 500,000 minutes spent at the pumps (100k x 5 x 1)
EV, taking your 20% home charging = 80,000 needing to use a rapid charger
= total 4,800,000 minutes spent at a charger (80k x 30 x 2)

fag packet maths says will need about 10x more EV chargers than petrol pumps to avoid larger queues
the reality is probably a lot more nuanced though

I think this is why the BYD flash charging is so exciting. It near enough makes the swap a direct like for like exchange of a petrol pump.

Factor in that not everyone will need to do it (those that can charge at home / work etc.) and also the fact that they don't need mega grid connections like rapid charging hubs do (because of the massive buffer batteries) plus the added benefit that they could be used to help balance the grid assuming that a percentage of that buffer battery is made available to do so. I literally can't see any downsides to pushing the technology out widespread.

It may only be BYD at the moment but others will catch up (or buy in) and the change over can be phased meaning that current infrastructure doesn't become obsolete overnight, it would simply shift as it hits natural obsolescence.

There is still plenty of time to start shifting the focus to that model, especially when you consider that 75% of cars sold even now still have a fossil fuel tank to fill.

 

[tamzzy]

Ok you take a hit for paying for charging a bit, but no faffing around trying to find another car park, or waiting for people to leave. (presumably you could tell the charger to charge only a certain amount?)

You can set the limit in the car but some chargers also have overstay payments to stop exactly this sort of behaviour, they don't want to be losing charging revenue while someone is parked up for 5 hours plugged in but only charged for 10 minutes.

most destination chargers have a time payment component on top of the usage payment, and then an overstay charge once the charging is done
the time payment stops the douchebags that set the charging current to 6a to "slow charge" and use the space like a parking lot

 

[chanjy]

I think this is why the BYD flash charging is so exciting. It near enough makes the swap a direct like for like exchange of a petrol pump.

Factor in that not everyone will need to do it (those that can charge at home / work etc.) and also the fact that they don't need mega grid connections like rapid charging hubs do (because of the massive buffer batteries) plus the added benefit that they could be used to help balance the grid assuming that a percentage of that buffer battery is made available to do so. I literally can't see any downsides to pushing the technology out widespread.

It may only be BYD at the moment but others will catch up (or buy in) and the change over can be phased meaning that current infrastructure doesn't become obsolete overnight, it would simply shift as it hits natural obsolescence.

There is still plenty of time to start shifting the focus to that model, especially when you consider that 75% of cars sold even now still have a fossil fuel tank to fill.

Wouldn't get so hung up on this BYD tech. The whole 'they don't need grid connections like rapid charging hubs' is also a red herring, everyone can install batteries if they like. There's a reason CPOs don't do it unless they have to (it costs more!)

I'd prefer a lot more 800V chargers than a few of these proprietary manufacturer hubs tbh.

 

[Hatake]

We've been looking at the Renault 5 and the Micra, the only concern is that the R5 is getting a motor upgrade the end of the year which may be worth waiting for.

My first car was a Renault 5 Campus and some years later the GT Turbo, I just can't get over how big and heavy the new R5 is in comparison. The original was a light box that drove like a go kart on steroids (and was probably as safe as a go kart on the motorway would be ). Times move on, cars get safer, bigger, etc but my nostalgia is strong! Aside from my issue of resurrecting the R5 name, i think the EV R5 is a pretty ideal city car. The top spec R5 brand new costs the same as a mid range 1.5 Golf (~30k) before you take into account any eco car scheme grant. More than perfect for the daily commute to the office, school run, or to the shops, which is the majority of most peoples regular driving. Jump in the car in the morning, "tank" is always full for a fraction of the cost, and meets the commute needs. If I had some way of charging at home overnight, it's probably the car I would go for as my work has a very attractive eco car scheme. Shame my neighbours frown upon me hanging an extension cable out the 3rd floor window.

The once a year I do a road trip, the savings in petrol/diesel from my daily commuting would be more than enough to rent a fancy new ICE car for a week and still have a decent amount left over. I believe EVs are reaching a point where they make sense for a lot of people now; supply chains are established, costs have come down, and a daily 100 mile range (far less than the average person will do) is comfortably achievable (R5 WLTP claims 250, and EV database claims real world of 160 for the 52 kW version).

I find people that are anti-EV these days are either stubborn, don't like change, have their evidence stuck in 2010, have unrealistic expectations, or a mix of the lot. Yeah, an EV is probably a bad car if you plan to drive 300+ miles regularly or road trip across Europe. A Ferrari is bad car if you plan to carry luggage or fit a baby seat. A transit van is bad if your aim is sub 9 minutes round the nurburgring. It's not the car that's bad, it's that you got the wrong car for the job. For the daily commute, EVs tick a lot of the boxes for a ever increasing amount of people. And anything that drives funding and innovation into the next gen battery technology is also a good thing, would be such a game changer for tech.

 

[lordrobs]

Wouldn't get so hung up on this BYD tech. The whole 'they don't need grid connections like rapid charging hubs' is also a red herring, everyone can install batteries if they like. There's a reason CPOs don't do it unless they have to (it costs more!)

I'd prefer a lot more 800V chargers than a few of these proprietary manufacturer hubs tbh.

You could well be right but I'm looking at the longer game here. Don't forget that 800V was just the preserve of a couple of manufacturers initially but then hit wider market brands just a few years later. I won't bet my house on it but I'd be surprised if 1000V doesn't start emerging as a wider utilised architecture further down the line.

Costs are higher, you are absolutely right, but as it stands putting in an application for a rapid charging hub sets you on a 5 year waiting list while the DNO rubs it's chin and sucks through it's teeth. While the feed in will likely be fixed in terms of capacity it also gives the opportunity to add greater charging capacity further down the line without having to change the wider infrastructure.

Maybe it will never scale up in the way that I think it will. Whatever the case it makes no difference to current or prospective EV owners.

 

[TheVoice]

To get back on topic, I'm considering a Renault 5.

I think they look great, I've sat in a couple and found them to be extremely comfortable, but I haven't yet had a test drive.

Anyone have one, and able to provide thoughts?

I've had a 52kW Iconic for a year, ask me anything (except home charging costs because I don't do that).

I still love looking at it, it's fun to drive, more than quick enough for the majority of roads I use and even though it's "only" 150hp it feels much quicker than my previous petrol SEAT Leon which was also 150hp. It's a great city car but still has more than enough power to keep up on NSL roads and motorways. If you carry rear passengers often (adults at least) it's perhaps not the car to get as rear legroom is rather tight, though that's to the benefit of a decently-sized boot. Renault should have just put two seats in the rear, I can't imagine ever fitting three people in the back.

As of a few months ago Techno+ and Iconic trims have one-pedal driving, and Iconic+ now gets the HK audio system as standard which sounds really impressive (though the sub takes up some underfloor storage space in the boot).

 

[kefkef]

The wife is really enjoying her R5 Iconic+, its slightly shorter but a bit taller than the 2015 Renault Clio it replaced. I've driven it a few times, found the steering slightly heavy compared to my car, acceleration is pretty good (but not as quick as my car...... ), seats are comfy, i'm not really keen on the american style gear shifter on the steering column, rear legroom as TheVoice says is a bit restrictive but it's only used as a runabout locally for the majority of its miles, boots big enough for weekly shopping, controls are easy enough to navigate and its still got buttons for all the heathens who need them ( ) for most functions.

 

[Shadowness]

Well on a complete whim, I've booked one of the self drive tests this evening (Model Y). There's a place on the other side of town that has them available. Unfortunately a base model RWD, but it'll be fine for first (driving) impressions.

I know it's a car at the end of the day, but any silly things to be aware of so as not to be caught out in the middle of the drive?!

 

[Diddums]

Masturbation in test drives is generally frowned upon.

 

[tamzzy]

I know it's a car at the end of the day, but any silly things to be aware of so as not to be caught out in the middle of the drive?!

Arrive a few mins early
You'll be testing a juniper that may/may not have the updated stalks
Drive/reverse is a swipe on the main screen though there are the buttons on the roof as well. The hazard light is also on the roof (if required)
Glancing to the side for speed is a bit weird
The latest updates have made the ambient lights into blind-spot warning lights which is a nice welcome

 

[Mysterae_]

Masturbation in test drives is generally frowned upon.

I want to know how the saleswoman knew, cheekily telling me to come again soon. Now I know what BYD really stands for.

 

[tamzzy]

no happy ending? was self-service? that's poor tbh

 

[GravyMonster]

Masturbation in test drives is generally frowned upon.

Depends how badly the salesman wants the commission.

 

[MrRockliffe]

Who voted that the Hyundai situation can’t get worse?


Sorry to say, you’re wrong!


Agreed collection today, been on the fence a little so hadn’t yet signed the agreement ahead of time - wanted to make sure they couldn’t introduce any more problems.


Colour me (not) surprised when I get a call 70 mins into a 100 min drive saying “oh you’ve not signed your agreement so there’s no point coming today, as it won’t complete in time - it takes up to 24 hours”


This is the same person I spoke to that morning to arrange going over.


So after taking the day off work, I turn around and go home. Lols.

 

[Nomisf]

To get back on topic, I'm considering a Renault 5.

I think they look great, I've sat in a couple and found them to be extremely comfortable, but I haven't yet had a test drive.

Anyone have one, and able to provide thoughts?

Get an A290 not a renault 5

Don't get me wrong, I adore my A290 GTS+ , but...

Only do this if you actually want a sporty car - the suspension is hard, the tyres are noisy, the economy and range are markedly worse and the handling much twitchier than the R5 its based on.

If you want those things, get one and love it like I do - but if you value a normal, soft comfy car with cup holders - avoid!

 

[Rroff]

I find people that are anti-EV these days are either stubborn, don't like change, have their evidence stuck in 2010, have unrealistic expectations, or a mix of the lot. Yeah, an EV is probably a bad car if you plan to drive 300+ miles regularly or road trip across Europe. A Ferrari is bad car if you plan to carry luggage or fit a baby seat. A transit van is bad if your aim is sub 9 minutes round the nurburgring. It's not the car that's bad, it's that you got the wrong car for the job. For the daily commute, EVs tick a lot of the boxes for a ever increasing amount of people. And anything that drives funding and innovation into the next gen battery technology is also a good thing, would be such a game changer for tech.

Flip side though you get people who see you as anti-EV because they don't understand that people have different usage to them and/or usages which slip through the cracks i.e. the vast majority of my usage is prime EV territory and I have a large parking area which easily facilitates charging BUT occasionally I do have to do those "300 mile" trips on short notice and with time constraints and that becomes a complete showstopper - especially with the still unpredictable nature of the public charging network - you can much more chance it with fuel (though I always try to maintain over half a tank to accommodate contingencies).

EDIT: There is also a bit of an experience hump to get over - not just being stubborn and/or not liking change - especially for people who are getting on - things like having properly invested in a standardised charging network up front would massively help with that and EV adoption - one of those things which is easy when you know how but can be prohibitive to break into.

 

[Shadowness]

Well on a complete whim, I've booked one of the self drive tests this evening (Model Y).

Ok so yeh I’m impressed. Doddle to drive, very intuitive. Granted we were fiddling around in menus a fair bit for stuff you would have already set up properly, but yeh…..I liked it!

Really liked the auto gear change thing, what ever they called it. I deliberately drove into car parks and faffed about to see if the screen gear changing would bug me, but most of the time the car already selected the gear for me.

Wasn’t a huge fan of the regen braking, felt a lot more natural in chilled mode - but maybe that’s something you get used to? One pedal driving was bizarre but again, very easy to get used to even in a hour.
Also felt pretty good to drive, and chuck about a bit, didn’t feel anywhere near as much of a lump in terms of driving characteristics as I expected. It also makes a lot of noises, beeps, bongs etc again I guess you get used to them

The space was impressive too, especially back seats and the boot.

I’m that impressed that I’ve changed tack a bit, and even thinking that if we go down this road, I’ll sell my 140i and keep her Fiesta as the ‘back up’ car - as we’d struggle with one car like most families. But I’d really struggle to justify keeping the 140 sadly.

I feel we should have maybe test drove other cars, Scenic E-tech, Skodas, Kias etc before that, as tbh, I’m not sure how they could top that (factoring price too).

 

[Diddums]

Who voted that the Hyundai situation can’t get worse?


Sorry to say, you’re wrong!


Agreed collection today, been on the fence a little so hadn’t yet signed the agreement ahead of time - wanted to make sure they couldn’t introduce any more problems.


Colour me (not) surprised when I get a call 70 mins into a 100 min drive saying “oh you’ve not signed your agreement so there’s no point coming today, as it won’t complete in time - it takes up to 24 hours”


This is the same person I spoke to that morning to arrange going over.


So after taking the day off work, I turn around and go home. Lols.

Shirley at this point you tell them to get stuffed?

You have a much higher tolerance level than I do.