EVO Experts and those who just generally know about new EVO's

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Well since my test drive in the EVO, I've come away feeling rather impressed. The hooligan side of me is telling me I'd have a lot of fun in such a car and it would possibly make a good short gap, say something to buy over the next month and sell on March time next year, unless I am not bored of the fun.

I've just been watching many many Top Gear and Fifth gear episodes that mainly put cars such as Subaru, EVO and Audi S4's head to head and everytime as a fun car they all choose the EVO and it always delivers the better results. In fact on the Top Gear episode where they pitch the FQ320 and STi Prodrive head to head the Stig comments that the "Subaru is a good boys car" and "The EVO is a mens car".

Anyway this is not to start a Subaru VS EVO war, but if I was to go towards such a vehicle it will most likely be an EVO 9 are some sorts or if one came along cheap enough one of the newer Litchfield Type 25 cars.

So EVO guys please explain to me a few things.

I test drove an FQ360, with only 17 miles on the clock and as such was told to keep the revs around 5000rpm, I did creep to 6000rpm though. So some questions:-
1. Will the engine become looser as in more power with mileage once ran in etc, where is the rev limiter and does it keep pulling hard upto it or does the boost fall off?
2. How does the MR version differ?

Now the Mitsubishi guy did say because I was commenting how I thought the FQ360 was overpriced for what it is that the on-road difference between it and the FQ340 is hardly noticable, any truth to this?

3. Is say an EVO 9 FQ300, FQ320, FQ340 and FQ360 all identical accept from the power difference? As in suspension, bodywork, weight etc. I thought the FQ360 was great to drive, easy clutch, good gearbox and very little turbo lag, do the lower models have more or less lag, as is the FQ360 been specially tuned for less lag with it having 363Lb-Ft at 3200rpm?

4. If one was to get say an FQ320 or FQ340 can they be tuned easily whilst still keeping reliability but if at all reducing any lag as well? What kind of cost are we looking at? I am not talking crazy levels of power, but if one could get 360-400BHP without causing any extra lag or further improving it that would be ideal.


I ask because from looking at cars for sale I've seen 2005 examples of the FQ320 going for as little as £11,000 which seems absolute peanuts for what is such a great car to drive and enjoy.

Now I know the EVO is no Stang and I know beyond 60mph that the Stang would even obliverate the FQ400 but what the EVO does have as an advantage is even better handling and handling that usable for all weather.
Fair enough the EVO is common, has a bad reputation, looks nothing special and cost more than the Stang to run and does not sound as good but I think that for maybe a short period of time I could have some good fun in one.

Obviously I don't want to go buy an FQ360, keep it 6 months and then loose 5-10k in depreciation, if I was to get one I need to try to limit any depreciation as much as possible.

So I know there is quite a lot of people who know their stuff on here, especially reference turbo cars and EVO's so tell me what you know please.

Finally even though the steering and handling was very nice on the EVO can it be improved further for the road or do people generally leave them as is because the improvements on offer are not huge?

 

[Gibbo]

4. If one was to get say an FQ320 or FQ340 can they be tuned easily whilst still keeping reliability but if at all reducing any lag as well? What kind of cost are we looking at?/QUOTE]

Yes very eaasily tunable, but at the end of the day, chasing big power figures on a turbo'd engine almost inevitably will result in more lag (I know about timing swings, air-air injectors, roller bearing internals, using *** etc) or at least a higher boost threshold before the turbo delivers the goods.

For tuning research either M.A.Developments or RC Developments.

Hi there

Say is one got an FQ340, do they already have performance air filters/CAI and exhaust setups as stock or can these be added to further improve things.

If so could one possibly add a CAI, De-CAT, Exhaust etc. and would the gains be worthwhile? Does an EVO benefit from an atmospheric valve or does it just add stupid noises?

Can companies simply remap an FQ340 to FQ360 levels and beyond?

 

[Gibbo]

Gibbo,

Can't answer any of your questions, but if you want a trick 4WD car with big BHP, have you not considered a GTR34 Skyline? The Evo will surely blow itself to bits if you try and extract much more bhp from it.

Hi there

Having been in a Skyline they are not much of a car really in stock trim. They also don't handle anywhere near as good as an EVO either in stock trim, in fact I preferre the way the Mustang handles over a Skyline.

Fair enough a tuned Skyline both power and suspension wise is very good, but for the money I'd buy a Corvette Z06 over one anyday.

Am not sure how tunable the EVO is safely and hence my questions.

 

[Gibbo]

I test drove a FQ340, awesome bit of kit but far too hardcore as a daily for my bony ass. If it were me and I was looking at depreciation issues, I'd be looking at the aforementioned T25 which is just utterly sublime, will embarrass Astons, Porka turbos etc (performance wise / track time, not in any other area though). And if you like to tinker, Iain has plenty of bits

I think the FQ360 did do very well in EVO's COTY, even beating the T25 but I cannot remember the reasons right now...price possibly?

As far as Top Gear vids, that was the MY04 WR1 vs the FQ320. The bog standard MY05 STi addressed some of the issues raised in that comparison...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lcm1XhrcnA

...that'll be Hammond and Clarkson choosing the STi at the end

Either way, I think you'll get home with a grin.

Hi there

Watched that video and even though for unknown reasons they think they preferre the Subaru, the actual on track performance is massively in the EVO's favour and the kind of roads I drive are those where the EVO's works best.

From driving the EVO it just let me do silly things and its understeer is very minimal to none existent.

 

[Gibbo]

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/193662.htm

Says it all Gibbo. You could always test one out again and buy one, and if you don't like get rid.

Hi there

I've been checking that out, but its too modified for me really, bit of an insurance nightmare and hard to sell on.

Plus for £20,000 I can get an EVO 9 FQ320 and from what I am reading the entire EVO 9 FQ range use the same turbo, only difference on the FQ360 is the fuel pump and ECU map. Supposedly 380-400BHP is easy, safe and relatively cheap.

To me if I can get a nice EVO for 20k, basically bit of a bargain will limit any depreciation in the 6 months or so I own the car.

 

[Gibbo]

back to the skyline question, was it an r34 gtr that you drove/sat in?

Hi there

Yep it was an R34 GTR V-Spec Skyline, and it had a boost controller, so around 330BHP. It was a nice car but they are damn heavy beast and unlike on paper they don't handle as brilliantly as reviews/press would lead you to believe.

Fair enough an R34 with tuned suspension, running around 500BHP are fantastic, but to get an R34 to such levels cost crazy amounts of money and to be quite frank a Z06 would cost less and outperform it pretty much in every way.

The Skylines biggest enemy is its weight, whenever I've been at track days and Skylines have been present they never do particular well either. They are a grand tourer, albeit a very fast one and when the R33 GTR came out it really was leaps and bounds ahead of other cars at the time. However the R34 GTR now is an old car and as such there are newer better cars available for the same money as used R34's sell for.

The EVO is so much more nimble over an R34/R33, hell even my Mustang is more nimble over a stock R34 GTR.

 

[Gibbo]

Try and find a second hand Evo9 GT.

Retains the leccy windos etc but uses the Rs diff instead of the AYC.

Better diff and cheaper to run.


Evo 9 gt's will see around 400bhp with a few bits+Ecutek remap

Hi there

Are these UK or import only? I only want a UK car, insurance and selling on purposes.

 

[Gibbo]

I know it is not an Evo but something like this is likely to not lose hardly any money.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/172351.htm

Hi there

When I was younger I always adored the 22B, when I was possible P1 shopping, the 22B was my dream car. However as nice as it is its an old design that is seriously out classed by the newer Subarus and even more so the EVO 9.

 

[Gibbo]

This is kinda nice gibbo


http://lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=159227

Hi there

Same one as in the Pistonheads advert m8 posted above.
Really too many mods for my liking, so an insurance nightmare and its a little overpriced. I want to find a bargain which is ideally stock so I can do as I wish.
I've registered over there and asked similar questions.

Seems for £1500 its easy and safe to take an FQ320 or FQ340 upto 400BHP and 400Lb-Ft region. To me including margin that comes to less than half of my car budget. That means the remaining money can sit in the bank, gain interest, add further saving and then buy something real special and more "Gibbo Unique" in 6 months time after I've had fun been a hooligan.

My only issue is if I get an EVO do I have to get a burberry cap to in order to fit in?

 

[Gibbo]

According to the figures, the r34 gtr is only 40kg more than the evo (curb weight).

But, i can see how it would feel like a big car. The ST220 is a big car with a big engine, but when i get into the golf, it feels as big as the mondeo whereas its really not.

I wont argue anyones point that the r34 gtr doesnt handle well. But, your mustangs handling setup aint standard is it ?

as has been said, spend a couple of k on an r34 to sort the suspension out and get a few more bhp.

but thats just me, its your choice

Hi there

Nope the Mustang aint standard and like I said against a standard R34 GTR the Mustang feels the more focused and more nimble car to drive. Like you say throw some money at an R34 and it will turn into a sublime handling and straight line machine no doubt.

Just R34's for what is now an old car aint cheap and I stand by what I've said a Z06 will eat an R34 GTR both on the road and at the track and to get an R34 GTR even close to the Z06's all round performance it would cost mega money but hey everybody likes different things.

The EVO 9's according to Mitsubishi are 1400-1460kg dependent on model and toys etc.

An R34 GTR V-Spec which is the one to have weighs 1540-1600kg dependent on where you look, thats a lot more than 40kg weight difference.

 

[Gibbo]

in that case buy a lower power 300 model. Pump+ecutek and your towards 400bhp

Hi m8

This is what I am trying to find out.

Are the FQ300, FQ320 an FQ340 all identical accept for the ECU map?

I know the FQ360 has a bigger fuel pump and again different ECU map but is that it when it comes down to the important stuff such as handling, stopping and get up and go?
The FQ360 I drove is a 6-speed, are the other models 6-speed or 5-speed. Also how does the MR version differ?

What is ecutek? Got any websites for me to look at please?

 

[Gibbo]

I see you listed 30-130 on ya stang as in the 13's bud.

MLR did a 30-130 day a few months back.


Quickest stock Turbo car on the day was 11.3. Not sure how he did that! (race fuel though)

Mr320 with Ecutek @ 14.99(320bhp atw good driver I guess)

Thoughts where that a 400bhp Evo full weight is high 16's to 17's secs flat 30-130

HI m8

If I get one the mods I am willing to do would be:-
CAI
DE-CAT
Blow off valve if it helps performance (Don't want stupid noisy thing though)
Exhaust
Fuel Pump
Remap / ecutek thing (what is this, who does it do, website please?)

I don't really want to do much more and want reliable power so anywhere around 380ish would do me, would the above manage that?

I know an EVO is not gonna be Stang quick past 60mph unless I want to spend thousands. However where the EVO will win is no doubt below 60mph and possibly slightly higher, but if I can at least get it within a few seconds that will not only be very quick but power and performance that is also very usable.

If a guy managed 15s across the 30-130mph with 320ATW which is circa 400 horses thats very impressive and remembering they also used proper GPS calibrated timing gear too. If I could get that kind of acceleration from an EVO I'd be happy and even more so by the fact that its so usable.

 

[Gibbo]

380 should be no problem at all with them mods gibbo.

Chances are you will find a 9 with mods all ready done, doesnt seem to be many about not touched

Hi m8

Whats the ecutek thingy, any tuning sites you can point me in the direction off please?

Also I know the MR has bilstein shocks, does only the MR have these out of the EVO 9 series, any other differences and why are these better?

Any chances you can look over my other questions as well please and answer if you know?

 

[Gibbo]

You supercharged a Mustang and left virtually no part stock, how can a car be too modified for you

Hi there

The American insurers seem far less bothered about mods, the supercharger, suspension etc. was easy too add to the policy and added little money.

Wheras on an EVO such a long list of parts will either be hard to insure or just cost a small fortune extra.

It appears that EVO IX's are very tunable, you can start with a base FQ300, doo a remap, de-cat, filter, fuel pump and exhaust etc. for circa £1000 and the results are circa 400/400.

 

[Gibbo]

All that is going to cost you a lot more than 1k. Try closer to 3k.

HI there

Remap at TRL is £550+VAT, this sees you around 380 area. For an extra £50 there is an anti-lagg option, what is this?

Then fuel pump is £130 fitted and £60 for a decat which should give you close to 400/400, if not air filter and full exhaust will get you there, all at a cost, but its certainly not 3k. Was reading lots on the Lancer register last night and the EVO 9's are cheaper, easier and safer to mod.

 

[Gibbo]

It seems strange that you are considering moving from a highly modified £40,000 car to a £20k car with a concern for how many mods it has?

Surely you can use the same insurer? I mean.. if you are saving £20k on the price of the car over what you were going to buy who cares what the insurance costs?

Hi there

Fox I could have a million pound in the bank, but I'd still search for best possible deal always. Just because I might have 30k in the bank does not mean I am gonna sit back and let an insurance company have my pants down and as such I will still push the cheapest insurance quote I can get. On any car relevant if it cost 20k below my budget or 20k over it.

 

[Gibbo]

Exactly, and it's this reason I though Gibbo liked his S2000

Hi there

Loved the S2000, would even consider another one. Really liked the EVO too and it was 4WD. Mustang is great too and the Z06 was also fantastic.

Fact is I'd quite possibly like to own them all, its like each car satisfies something else within me, or maybe I am just getting blinded by the prospect of having a new toy to play with.

Yeah the 3000GT was boring on the handling side, mainly due to weight, but the EVO did seem a lot more focused and did communicate feedback, obviously still not as fun as RWD or takes the skill involved but it was not boring like the 3000GT.

I am trying to convince Mitsubishi into a 24hr test drive.

 

[Gibbo]

All the talk of the posh stuff liek 911's and Z06 that really are great cars suprised me that you'd go for the uber spec toy Evo ready for a big deprciation. Has your budget changed 'cos thats the only reason I can think of going for an evo over a 996 GT3.

If I go EVO and if I buy right then big depreciation is not a worry. An FQ360 would be huge depreciation yes, but an FQ300/FQ320 bought at a bargain price, then sold 6 months later will loose me very little if anything.

In the meantime I can just leave 30k+ in the bank and continue adding to that or jump onto something else that takes my fancy when such a vehicle comes along.

I am still undecided and heavily confused as what to go for, its all hard work.

 

[Gibbo]

There is a difference between trying to get the best deal and avoiding nicely modified cars becuase the insurance is expensive, surely?

HI there

Its a nice car, but for the finished result its overpriced in comparison to other EVO's or against stock cars. Buying that one would no doubt loose 5-7k in depreciation over 6 months though. If I get an EVO I need to find a good buy to limit any depreciation factor involved. In other words, buy a nice standard car with low mileage, do some simple easy mods, enjoy it and sell on in 6 months for little to no loss.

An EVO is not yet dead set but its an option on my list.

 

[Gibbo]

what happened to the rs4 test drive?

Hi there

Demo car arrives at dealer tomorrow.