F1 2014 regs
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Soldato
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I know that, and so did Murray - which is why he said it was illegal to reverse backwards. Under normal circumstances that would be a tautology, but in F1 it's perfectly legal to drive your car in reverse so long as you're following the direction of traffic.
Soldato
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So, two slight issues here.
If someone's kers fails, they're ****** because they can't go into the pits.. This seems to encourage drivers to drive for longer with failed kers in a hope it fixes itself, when in fact it could be causing more issues.
Second, if a driver messes up and stalls in some kind of spin, they can just restart?
kd
If someone's kers fails, they're ****** because they can't go into the pits.. This seems to encourage drivers to drive for longer with failed kers in a hope it fixes itself, when in fact it could be causing more issues.
Second, if a driver messes up and stalls in some kind of spin, they can just restart?
kd
1st point you can say about any failure. So non issue
2nd point I'm not sure. Although I think I've read they can only start in pit. But is it a bad. Thing if they can restart on track? They allready have a very good alto stall and its usually damage/beaching the car that stops them.
2nd point I'm not sure. Although I think I've read they can only start in pit. But is it a bad. Thing if they can restart on track? They allready have a very good alto stall and its usually damage/beaching the car that stops them.
Caporegime
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Yes, but in the latter situation you could also be preventing safety cars which almost always ruin races.
What happens if your engine stops working, your race is over, what happens if 4 tyres go pop, race over, what happens if your rear wing falls off, race over, what will happen if Ker's stops working, race is over.
Ultimately, Kers will need the reliability of current engines, but they should have that anyway.
With much more kers usage in the lap anyway, if your kers dies and you were allowed to come in the pits, who cares, your race is over. With current kers usage you're talking about 3-4tenths a lap, with far more kers usage we'll be looking at maybe 1 second + a lap. Kers vs no kers, and drs, there won't be a whole lot of defending when you don't have kers. so I can't see kers failing and people being competitive anyway.
Plenty of teams have a essentially completely reliable kers, only a couple teams constantly have kers failures, when the cars rely on Ker's more they'll devote a larger part of the budget towards it and the kers systems themselves will be several years more developed than when first introduced.
The plan is similar to the engine and gearbox rules. They make it very important for them to work and very damaging if they fail in order to encorage the teams/manufacturers to make more reliable parts.
So just like an engine failure means race over, the same will be the case for KERS. It becomes an integral part of the power train, rather than just a bold on like it is now. The energy recovery systems come as part of the engine package.
And I don't see any issue with drivers being able to restart the cars themselves?
I think he actually has a point
I dont think there is any other failure that if the car is capable getting back to the pits, its not allowed to enter the pits.
(fine, if it isnt capable of doing so - then you are right. But quite easily they could have engine power and no kers, but cant race because of the state of their tyres, for example, which is a bit daft imo)
Plenty of cars drive into the pits and then retire.
The KERS will not be a bolt on thing that you can switch on and off like now, it will be an integral part of the engine/gearbox that will provide a substantial amount of the cars power (20% or more). If it fails, you are going to be retiring anyway, so being disqualified for entering the pits with the engine running isn't going to matter.
I can see the point if its something that could be fixed in a pit stop, but the 2014+ KERS wont be.
The KERS will not be a bolt on thing that you can switch on and off like now, it will be an integral part of the engine/gearbox that will provide a substantial amount of the cars power (20% or more). If it fails, you are going to be retiring anyway, so being disqualified for entering the pits with the engine running isn't going to matter.
I can see the point if its something that could be fixed in a pit stop, but the 2014+ KERS wont be.
Soldato
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The point I'm really making about kers, is that kers seems to be one of the bigger issues around right now. I'm sure they'll make it more reliable, and it does seem to come back on better, which might just mean you miss optimal points...
RBR in particular this season have had all sorts of issues with kers, and let us not forget the issues some of the lower teams have had with kers.
I'll happily accept though that come 2014, they'll be working much more on making it better and more reliable.
As for anti-stall, I'll take that into account, but as for safety cars, often I feel they can make the race rather than ruin it. The field bunches up again, and everyone can get back to racing.
kd
RBR in particular this season have had all sorts of issues with kers, and let us not forget the issues some of the lower teams have had with kers.
I'll happily accept though that come 2014, they'll be working much more on making it better and more reliable.
As for anti-stall, I'll take that into account, but as for safety cars, often I feel they can make the race rather than ruin it. The field bunches up again, and everyone can get back to racing.
kd
Could you imagine what an engine manufacturer would have said in 2002 if you told them their engines had to do 3 full race weekends!
KERS failures happen now because its not the end of the world if they do. When they become a race critical item they will be engineered to much higher reliability specifications. But just like engines, the only way to do make them more reliable is to force them into it with harsh penalties.
Just look at Red Bull. They are having failures because the KERS seems to be an afterthought that Newey had to begrudgingly fit into his design. Things will be very different when KERS is a component as important as the engine and gearbox.
KERS failures happen now because its not the end of the world if they do. When they become a race critical item they will be engineered to much higher reliability specifications. But just like engines, the only way to do make them more reliable is to force them into it with harsh penalties.
Just look at Red Bull. They are having failures because the KERS seems to be an afterthought that Newey had to begrudgingly fit into his design. Things will be very different when KERS is a component as important as the engine and gearbox.
If it is just being disqualified from that race, then you are correct in that it wont matter a jot.
The impression I got (rightly or wrongly) is that it would be treated more severely by the very nature that its a pit lane infringement. If I mis-understood that , then fair enough
Newey has always hated KERS, due to its bult and the packaging requirements - Im still surprised however how Mark appears to get many more KERS issues than SV
I think what KD was getting at was that in 2014 if your KERS fails then you can't get into the pits without being disqualified.
With KERS as it is as the moment, that would be harsh. As Webber showed yesterday having KERS fail is an inconvinence but not critical, but being disqualified from the race because he can't get into the pits for his routine stop would be very harsh.
What I'm saying is that in 2014 the KERS is going to be such a critical component built into the engine and gearbox that if it fails, you are retiring. You will probably be stopping out on track. Its going to be similar to loosing 2 cylinders from the engine or having a hydrolics failure. You will not be able to just switch it off and carry on like you can now. So getting disqualified for using the engine in the pit lane isn't going to be an issue because if you even make it back, you will be parking it in the garage.
With the way the KERS is built into the engine and turbo setup and things, a KERS failure in 2014 will basically be an engine failure.
With KERS as it is as the moment, that would be harsh. As Webber showed yesterday having KERS fail is an inconvinence but not critical, but being disqualified from the race because he can't get into the pits for his routine stop would be very harsh.
What I'm saying is that in 2014 the KERS is going to be such a critical component built into the engine and gearbox that if it fails, you are retiring. You will probably be stopping out on track. Its going to be similar to loosing 2 cylinders from the engine or having a hydrolics failure. You will not be able to just switch it off and carry on like you can now. So getting disqualified for using the engine in the pit lane isn't going to be an issue because if you even make it back, you will be parking it in the garage.
With the way the KERS is built into the engine and turbo setup and things, a KERS failure in 2014 will basically be an engine failure.
Mechanically that makes no sense Skeeter. KERS energy is delivered via the engines crankshaft, from an electric motor.
To be KERS only, all they have to do is cut fuel (or spark, or both) and hold the valves open for efficiency purposes.
Unless a catastrophic mechanical failure occurs with the motor that damages the crankshaft, all other likely failure modes would result in the KERS system being dead weight rather than crippling, exactly as it is now. There is nothing fundamental changing in the system, because it is already logically in the best place.
The layout also puts the start thing to bed, as the pistons won't stop moving they just need to adjust the valve train and start the fuel/spark again to "start" the engine, totally seamless just as they do now dropping to 4 cylinders in corners and while waiting at idle.
I can honestly see a team with a failed KERS unit pushing a car down the pit exit to rejoin the race if a minor KERS issue prevented it from powering itself down to the white line...
To be KERS only, all they have to do is cut fuel (or spark, or both) and hold the valves open for efficiency purposes.
Unless a catastrophic mechanical failure occurs with the motor that damages the crankshaft, all other likely failure modes would result in the KERS system being dead weight rather than crippling, exactly as it is now. There is nothing fundamental changing in the system, because it is already logically in the best place.
The layout also puts the start thing to bed, as the pistons won't stop moving they just need to adjust the valve train and start the fuel/spark again to "start" the engine, totally seamless just as they do now dropping to 4 cylinders in corners and while waiting at idle.
I can honestly see a team with a failed KERS unit pushing a car down the pit exit to rejoin the race if a minor KERS issue prevented it from powering itself down to the white line...
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Losing a second a lap isn't the same as parking it on track with a hydraulics failure as you suggested. A KERS failure in the last few laps could turn a 25 point win into a single point finish, but no championship has ever come down to a single point has it?
How is it harsh? It is no different to any number of other mechanical failures that put an end to your race.
Because with KERS as it is now a failure won't put an end to your race.
Ferrari's testing suggests the 2014 KERS and TERS will see a 10x increase in the amount of recoverable energy compared to now. That could see recovered energy move from being worth 3 or 4 tenths to 3 or 4 seconds. Coupled with a move to only 5 engines per season (with the recovery systems being built in as integral components rather than bolt ons) a failure of the xERS systems is going to be met with the teams telling the drivers to stop immediately down the radio.
Recoverable but not stored or available. The 2014 regs are a doubling of energy available to the driver, not 10x.
Note that the KERS systems have clutches too, no way are we talking about any KERS failure being terminal in the same way as losing a con rod or something. Impossible to be at the sharp end, sure. Pack up and go home? No.
For clarity, someone like MBHPE could chop their existing engine down to meet spec, add a turbo, double the battery capacity and go racing. That would meet the 2014 KERS rules. An extreme simplification maybe but I'm trying to highlight to you that the changes are not fundamental they are incremental.
Note that the KERS systems have clutches too, no way are we talking about any KERS failure being terminal in the same way as losing a con rod or something. Impossible to be at the sharp end, sure. Pack up and go home? No.
For clarity, someone like MBHPE could chop their existing engine down to meet spec, add a turbo, double the battery capacity and go racing. That would meet the 2014 KERS rules. An extreme simplification maybe but I'm trying to highlight to you that the changes are not fundamental they are incremental.
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