Soldato
Apple or orange - which is more like a gerbil?
F1 or Moto GP - which is more skillful?
- Thread starter Merlin5
- Start date
Im trying to find some figures, but not getting anything quote worthy or useful - it doesnt seem to be something they actually measure in bike racing. I guess that speak volumes...
Found an interesting article comparing Honda F1 (Button) to Honda MotoGP (Hayden) back in 2006 - not really on topic though
:http://www.f1complete.com/content/view/4638/389/
ps3ud0
Everything you've said about F1 is applicable to MotoGP.
Regarding my comment about braking. The F1 driver is strapped into his seat where as the MotoGP rider has nothing holding him in place. The F1 driver has to push a pedal with his foot where as the MotoGP rider has to apply most braking force with the fingers on his right hand while stopping himself from being thrown from his seat.
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Associate
They can reach ~217mph... so pretty quick, and there are several circuits where the top speed of the motogp bikes is faster than that of the F1 cars.
Fact is F1 has far more money spent on development of the cars, they have four fat tyres, and are aerodynamically designed to make them stick the floor, so of course they will lap quicker than a motogp bike.
I am a bike man though, and kudos to the Isle of Man competitors... averaging ~130mph over a lap of 38 miles takes a big set of stones.
I've never even broken a sweat on a bike track day, yet even in a lowly Palmer Audi, Formula Ford 2000 or a proper kart (Rotax Max or similar) if you aren't race fit, anything more than about 10 laps becomes seriously hard work!
I think you are underestimating what it is like to be sat in the cockpit of a single seater at speed. I have no doubt that a Moto GP bike is very physical to ride, but I am certain that driving a F1 is a whole different extreme.
Edit: Just to be clear, I am only talking about how physical they are. In terms of skill, they are two very different disciplines and the guys at the front comparably at the top of their game and pushing the limits. It no doubt requiress similar levels of "skill" to be the best at either.
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Compare 1980 - present
I best most of those F1 deaths are pre 1980. Just this year a rider in the Moto2 class of GP's died in a crash. Shoya Tomizawa.
Since Senna died a lot has changed with the cars that make them damn near bullet proff. The nature of bike racing as far as bike and rider go, not a lot has really changed. You still come off the bike in the same as you did 50 years ago. Although technology in protective clothing has changed which gives the rider a better chance of avoiding series injury or death.
It's like just on the road, by the vary nature of cars and bikes you are safer in a car than on a bike.
If we're going by experience I've done several bike track days and a few races and I've done a few Formula Ford races in my early 20's and plenty of laps in a proper kart, including a few endurance races. I've broken more than a sweat doing all of them.
To be honest our experience can't really be used to confirm anything. I may be better in a car than I am on a bike and therefore have a biased view. You may be better on a bike than driving a car etc.
However, my comment was regarding braking as mentioned in the post I commented on first. Not sure why the two replies to my posts have missed this?
This goes to show how much downforce helps along with the extra mechanical grip.
The cars have for big rubber contact patches plus the downforce whereas the bikes have around the same rubber touching the road as a couple of beer mats and no hardly any downforce.
Braking ... To stop an F1 car the driver presses the pedal with somewhere in the region of 100kg of force, experiencing more than 5G of deceleration.
A moto GP rider experiences approx 1.8G cornering force at an absolute maximum. Braking force will be significantly lower than this as the type contact patch is larger when cornering, and the COG lower. Shall we say 1.5G (I'd suspect it is probably significantly lower than this)
1.5G is only 50% more than the force we experience every moment of the day. 5G is 5 times that. That force is acting on your whole body too - pressing your internal organs including your heart up against your rib cage. Stopping blood from flowing freely around your body.
It's this that makes the F1 car the more physical of the two to drive/ride
Generally a moto GP rider is working with the bike, so leaning into a corner etc doesn't require the greatest effort. Probably pulling the bike up and over to hussle it through a quick chicane is one of times they are working hardest. Braking no doubt needs strenth in the arms, but at for arguments sake 1.5G it might be comparable to say doing a press up with a 30kg back pack on?
There are also other things that make it even harder in F1 such as cockpit temperature, which makes it even more challenging.
Not to dismiss your experience (it certainly should give you a decent understanding) ... but since Formula Fords 1600s don't have slicks or wings you miss out on the downforce that makes a F1 car so intense. To be fair even the car with slicks and wings like the ones I mentioned above, they're not even in the same ballpark as F1. It's not until the highest levels (GP2 etc) that the downforce levels get high enough to require really significant physical effort. As for karts, the very top classes run extremely sticky tyres, and with the nature of a kart (light and with no suspension) it can be very physical. Have you driven anything like this? Formula A, KF2, Rotax etc? I don't know of any endurance series that run these kind of karts on the softest tyres. It's quite an experience - I broke my ribs after just driving for a few laps. This happened again on the next two times out (after letting them heal) until I had a custom moulded rib protector made. Despite this, it's again still not even in the same ballpark as F1.
I'm certain that the race bikes, despite being unquestionably extremely physical things to ride just don't require quite the same as racing an F1 car for 90mins.
Again though, this is all just related to the physical comparison between the two. In terms of skill I am certain it takes equal amounts to compete at the top of either discipline. There are plenty of things that a Moto GP rider has to do that are more challenging than F1.
