F1: Prost on Senna

sunama

sunama

sunama

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With one of the greatest formula one drivers (MS, of course) now retiring, I was digging up some stuff on drivers of yesteryear. I stumbled across a great article with Alain Prost's opinion of Ayrton Senna.

Just thought you guys would like to have a read.
 
sunama said:
With one of the greatest formula one drivers (MS, of course) now retiring, I was digging up some stuff on drivers of yesteryear. I stumbled across a great article with Alain Prost's opinion of Ayrton Senna.

Just thought you guys would like to have a read.
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Nice Article, and i still think Senna is a better Driver. :p
 
Very good read and highlighted something I have been thinking recently. Hill had the audacity to suggest that Schumacher's placce in history is compromised by his ruthless tactics, but in my mind, Senna was just as bad, if not worse.
I remember vividly that San Marino GP. Ratzenberger died in qualifying and Senna in the race. TBH the race should never have gone ahead.


Actually I have just found this in Wilkipedia:

In 1994, Senna finally left the ailing McLaren team for the top team at the end of 1993 Williams-Renault. After the banning of active suspension Williams started the season trying to close the gap to Benetton. Senna failed to finish his first two races, despite taking two superb pole positions against the Benetton at both events. On May 1 1994, he took part in his third race for the team, the San Marino GP. Although he would not finish it, Senna started his last race from pole position.

That weekend, he was particularly upset by two events. On the Friday of the Grand Prix, during the morning session, Senna's protégé, the then newcomer Rubens Barrichello was involved in a serious accident that would prevent him from competing in the race. Senna visited Barrichello in the hospital (he jumped the wall at the back of the facility after being barred from visitation by the doctors) and was then convinced that safety standards had to be reviewed. On Saturday, the death of Austrian driver Roland Ratzenberger in practice forced the issue and even caused Senna to consider retiring. Ironically, he spent his final morning in meetings with fellow drivers, determined by Ratzenberger's accident to take on a new responsibility to re-create a Driver's Safety group to look at safety changes in Formula One. As the most senior driver, he was offered (and accepted) the role of leader in this effort.



Schumacher was following him after the restart and I remember him commenting recently that Senna didn't seem right at that time, then hit the wall at the Tamburello (spelling?). Dark days indeed. :(
 
SpeedFreak said:
Very good read and highlighted something I have been thinking recently. Hill had the audacity to suggest that Schumacher's placce in history is compromised by his ruthless tactics, but in my mind, Senna was just as bad, if not worse.
I remember vividly that San Marino GP. Ratzenberger died in qualifying and Senna in the race. TBH the race should never have gone ahead.
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Senna cried after Ratzenberger died, but schumacher celebrated the next day, having driven past the carnage and known it was serious, also celebrated on the podium whilst the others looked sickened. After that he is quoted as sayng the sport needs to be made safer, then went on to win the championship by causing an accident, which with his car going up on its side across the road could have resulted in another death.

Senna might have been ruthless, but schumacher is an out and out cheat and bad sport who thinks he is above the rules, his childish behaviour towards Hill is yet another Black mark.
Hill is right IMO.
 
I remember that Sunday. After what had happened in the previous 2 days it looked like a race to watch. It was a surreal day to say the least.
 
Being a Williams/Mansell fan, I hated Senna, he was the enemy, he drove for the enemy Mclaren. Mainly because he was so damn good and didnt seem to have many weak points, other than a total self belief in himself. The pairing of him and Prost at Mclaren was brilliant. Senna in the wet was something else, only Alesi could get anywhere near him on a wet track.
My favorite story about him was the one where Berger was flying him to the circuit in his helicopter and Senna had this new briefcase that he was raving over. Berger was tired of this so opened the door and chucked it out.
Damn i miss those late 80's GP days, Piquet, Prost, Senna, Berger, Patrese, Mansell, Alesi, big fat slicks, stupid power, tight close races, oh and that think called overtaking.
 
Ugley_Matt said:
Being a Williams/Mansell fan, I hated Senna, he was the enemy, he drove for the enemy Mclaren. Mainly because he was so damn good and didnt seem to have many weak points, other than a total self belief in himself. The pairing of him and Prost at Mclaren was brilliant. Senna in the wet was something else, only Alesi could get anywhere near him on a wet track.
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Same here man - I did not like Senna at all. When he went out at San Marino I was actually glad he had not scored in the first 3 races. Of course at that point in time I didnt realise that his crash was fatal. I wanted to see if Senna could actually come back at MS, when MS had a 30 pt head start, given that everyone rated the Williams car as the best in the paddock. Of course, the Bennetton was a much easier drive, but the Williams had more potential. Later that season, Williams did catch and I felt, surpassed the Bennetton car.

I think MS is the most complete driver I have ever seen or read about. Though over 1 lap, Senna was in a different league.

Ugley_Matt said:
My favorite story about him was the one where Berger was flying him to the circuit in his helicopter and Senna had this new briefcase that he was raving over. Berger was tired of this so opened the door and chucked it out.
Damn i miss those late 80's GP days, Piquet, Prost, Senna, Berger, Patrese, Mansell, Alesi, big fat slicks, stupid power, tight close races, oh and that think called overtaking.
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Dont forget though, that MS beat Senna, Berger, Alesi, and even Mansell (when Mansell/Williams were in top form - Spa '92), before they all retired. The only one to miss getting beat was Prost. Piquet had quit before MS arrived.

On the point of overtaking - since I have been watching F1 (since 1992) it has always been difficult to overtake. This facet of F1 hasnt changed at all since. People forget this. By introducing refuelling, overtaking in the pits has become the easy way to overtake so most drivers will use this method rather than doing it on the race track. If they got rid of refuelling, then drivers would almost certainly have to resort to overtaking more on the track.

On the subject of tight races - once again people forget that in the early 90s Maclaren and then Williams dominated. This led to a high speed procession. Think when Mansell was beating people by over 1 minute and actually taking it easy for most of the race. When Damon Hill and MS battled in the mid 90s though, that was very close. This season has also been excellent.
 
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That is a very interesting article which gives a facinating insight into 'Le Professeur'. He was my favourite driver when I first got into F1 in a big way in 1989, which remains my favourite season for excitement and drama.

That article raises several interesting points which are directly relevant to Schumacher today. Firstly, Prost advising Ron Dennis to sign Senna for McLaren for the 1988 season rather than Piquet for the good of the team as he was the better driver in Prost's eyes when he admitted that he could have blocked him coming to the team for his own self interest -especially when he admits in the article that he had a sense of foreboding about their relationship is extremely admirable and to his eternal credit. You just wish Schumacher had had the balls to do something similar at Ferrari (and also at Benetton) as the sport would've been the real winner.

Secondly, the writer of the article points out that if the points system in place in modern F1 - or even in the early 1990s (when it went 9 6 4 3 2 1 and there was a REAL reward for winning) was in place throughout Prost's career, he would've been AT LEAST a 6 time World Champion. He lost the championship in 1984 to his teammate Lauda by 1/2 a point, and the championship in 1988 to Senna despite scoring more points over the season as a whole in both cases - & therefore had been the more consistent driver - but lost the titles due to the frankly daft rule that only your best 11 scores in a season counted. Had this been the case he would have been in a whole different league to Senna in terms of achievement in F1 - 6 WDC to 2.

Thirdly, the article answers those Senna zealots who point at the injustice of Suzuka 1989 when not only did Prost turn in early (& thus, they claim, deliberately) to the chicane on Senna, but Senna was disqualified for a technicality & was therefore 'robbed' of the 1989 WDC. What the article points out & what the Senna zealots forget, is that Senna lost the 1989 WDC by 16 points & thus even had he won at Suzuka, he would have needed to win & Prost finish 6th or worse at the final race at Adelaide in order to win the WDC. As you may remember, what actually happened was Senna drove into the back of Brundle's Brabbham in blinding spray in the wet & retired having lost a wheel. Thus Suzuka 1989 merely decided the title early.

The most interesting thing abuot the article is the insight into Prost's relationship with Senna, and Senna's emotional state of mind at various points . This is especially true of Suzuka 1990, where he was extremely annoyed about the Pole grid slot being on the 'green' side of the track rather than the 'rubbered in' racing line of P2. He blamed everyone - the head of the FIA Jean Marie Balestre, Prost, everyone but himself & concocted a conspiracy theory that everyone was out to get him. All through this he conveniently forgot that the Pole slot had been in the same place the previous TWO years with no complaint from him. It does give a fascinating insight into Senna's emotional personality...

Don't get me wrong, while I was no Senna fan while he raced - like Matt and sunama I was a fan of Prost/Mansell & disliked Senna. I did admire & respect his talent however. He was a more natural driver than Prost, able to get the absolute maximum out of the car, especially over a single flying lap. His ability in the wet was also amazing - Donnington 1993 springs to mind as a demonstration of his talent in an inferior car to the all-conquering Williams' of Prost and Hill, although they were compromised by having dry, low-downforce setups. Anyway i've gone on too long here, just wanted to say great article & Prost doesn't get the recognition and respect he deserves, both as a driver and the way he conducted himself off the track.
 
Mansell actually said that at Ferrari, Prost would do strange things. If Mansell was quicker during practise, Prost would have his mechanics swap his car with Mansell's. If Mansell was quicker still, then Prost would have the cars swapped over again. Also rumour has it that Prost had a lot to do with Mansell's departure after 1992. Prost was no angel.

Did Schumacher ever block the arrival of a top class driver into his team?

He allowed JJ Lehto in (who was held in high regard as he was a former F3 champion). He allowed Johnny Herbert, Irvine, Barrichello, Massa, to race as team mates. All of them seemed like decent drivers. I remember Murray Walker used to say that Johnny Herbert was destined to win the world championship - high praise indeed. MS was consistently a second faster than Herbert though, in the same car. In fact MS was usually much faster than his team mate, even Martin Brundle, who was a pretty decent driver at Bennetton.

The problem with MS has been that before his team mates arrive, they have a decent reputation. After a season with MS though, he makes them look ordinary. I would have loved to seen him paired with Raikonen or Hakinnen. Those 2 are really the only drivers who mightve stood a chance to outscore him at Ferrari.

We must not forget though that MS has an unmatched ability to assist in the speedy development of the car. He explains things to his engineers in ways that makes it simple for them to understand. This was why he was able to do what he did at Ferrari (ie. a crap car & no world title for 20 odd years) then a few years after he moved to Ferrari, they have the best car in F1. The only people who had similar ability to develop the car were Prost and Hill. Senna did not have this ability.

What will be really interesting is just how good will Ferrari be without MS. What happens in the next 2yrs will give us a very good idea as to just how good MS was in terms of maintaining the development of the car.

I cant see anyone other than Alonso or Raikonen winning the drivers titles for the next few yrs. I just wish MS would stay 1 more year and battle Alonso.

Oh and I remember that Donnington race. I think Hill who finished 2nd had 7 pit stops and had no idea what position he was in. It was a long 2hr race and very chaotic. It seemed that only Senna knew what he was doing.
 
I think a lot of Schumacher's success is down to the team behind him and a certain chap called Ross Brawn. Look at how well Irvine did when Schumacher was out for most of the 1999 season, I'm not saying by any means that Schumacher isn't a great driver, but when the whole Ferrari team were behind Irvine, he upped his game and almost won the championship. Luckily for Schumacher it didn't happen, and I'm sure he was praying for it as well as he wanted to be the driver that brought Ferrari their first championship in nearly 20 years.
 
Linoge said:
I think a lot of Schumacher's success is down to the team behind him and a certain chap called Ross Brawn. Look at how well Irvine did when Schumacher was out for most of the 1999 season, I'm not saying by any means that Schumacher isn't a great driver, but when the whole Ferrari team were behind Irvine, he upped his game and almost won the championship. Luckily for Schumacher it didn't happen, and I'm sure he was praying for it as well as he wanted to be the driver that brought Ferrari their first championship in nearly 20 years.
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When MS broke his leg and all resources went behind Irvine, Irvine IIRC finished 2nd. And I remember a few races where MS was fighting tooth and nail on the track for Irvine to pull away from the rest. MS was protecting Irvine from being over taken. However, consider that that year Ferrari had the best car and it doesnt surprise me that Irvine finished 2nd that year. Just like Massa is 3rd this year behind MS and Alonso. If MS had missed 6 races this year, Massa would be lying in 2nd.

Ross Brawn did indeed follow MS to Ferrari, but it is MS who gives others behind him hope. Hope that if they can make their car an extra 0.1s faster, they may be good enough to win a race or a title. If you have someone else as your driver, even if you give him a car that can go 0.1s faster, you just dont feel it will make much difference.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Interest what you've said but i don't agree with the comment on Senna didn't help the mechanics improve the car.
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Before Prost left Mclaren in 89, Mclaren had by far the best car. When he left, the next year Mclaren had the best car, but their superiority was dwindling. Come 1991, they seemed to have been caught. The Prost effect had worn off I think. In 1992, Mclaren were completely outclassed. Thats when Senna wanted to jump ship and move to Williams. A move he successfully make in 1994.

I feel that it was no coincidence that McLaren lost their advantage a year after Prost had left. Senna never actually developed a car from middle of the pack to a front runner, like MS, Prost or Hill did. Even Hill was the test driver for the 1991/92 Williams car. He also put in more test miles than any other driver during the mid 90s. Even more than MS.
 
Martyn. said:
Senna was a legend.

I doubt we will see such great days of any battles like Senna v Prost again.
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Yes sport in general in the past has had good characters, snooker, football ,f1, these days it seems dull.
 
SC04 said:
pointless rambling
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*Sigh* Whatever will people like you rant about next season with Schumacher retired? I suppose you could go after Ralf, but it's a bit pointless seeing as he won't be at the sharp end of the grid anyway unless something drastic happens over the winter.

Great find BTW sunama, was an interesting read :)
 
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