FA CUP FINAL Arsenal v Hull City *** Spoilers ***
- Thread starter Cosimo
- Start date
Define always?
Don't tempt fate, Arsenal.
Pfft not like any other team would have a bus ready in case they win the FA Cup eh??. But its ok, its Arsenal and just like the muslims...the media love hating on them
i hate that "remind me of when arsenal last won a trophy" non-arsenal fans just dont understand the position the club is in financially. grinds my gears....
where are man united now?
where would chelsea be if abramovich left now? where were they 12 years ago?
where would city be if the sheikh left? where were they 4 years ago?
where would liverpool be if they had to play 50-60 games in a season? where have they been the last 7 years?
arsenal have never pretended to be the best team in the league, financially we have never been able to compete. we lose our key players at the worst of times season after season. we lead the table, and then down to our squad depth we start to drop points. we have a stadium that is all but paid off, a minute wage bill compared to the other top 6 teams, a fantastic youth system that is bringing up players with genuine quality year after year so i think we deserve this trophy, to silence the critics and the fans that have stood by the team during this transition.
where are man united now?
where would chelsea be if abramovich left now? where were they 12 years ago?
where would city be if the sheikh left? where were they 4 years ago?
where would liverpool be if they had to play 50-60 games in a season? where have they been the last 7 years?
arsenal have never pretended to be the best team in the league, financially we have never been able to compete. we lose our key players at the worst of times season after season. we lead the table, and then down to our squad depth we start to drop points. we have a stadium that is all but paid off, a minute wage bill compared to the other top 6 teams, a fantastic youth system that is bringing up players with genuine quality year after year so i think we deserve this trophy, to silence the critics and the fans that have stood by the team during this transition.
Soldato
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ARRRGHHH, I didn't realise, Barcelona vs Atletico is a 5pm kick off..... why
Spanish league is weird, games on throughout weekend, though realistically the top of the table is sorted, european places are done and dusted I believe with 3+ points between every team meaning none of it matters except the result of that one game so not being on at same time doesn't matter, still odd. But why does the biggest la liga game of the season have to be the same time as this stupid game
Then again, why is the FA CUP a 5pm kick off on a Saturday.
joke.
To add to that, obviously Hull is a very big Rugby League town, so the Hull KR v Hull FC derby is on at EXACTLY the same time also. Super annoyed!
That's all very nice, but it isn't relevant to whether I think Arsenal are going to beat Hull and win the trophy. They have had opportunities to win trophies and fallen at the last hurdle (or earlier) every time for as long as I can remember (as a non-Arsenal fan, actual Arsenal fans are likely to have a longer memory in this regard).
Caporegime
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Please educate yourself before spouting incorrect nonsense. The stadium is NO WHERE NEAR being paid off.
Likewise Arsenal have been financially significantly stronger since the stadium move than before. We won things before but not after. Atletico/Dortmund/Spurs/Brum/Swansea have all won cups(and apparently something like 40 other english teams) since we last won something. Financial ability to compete isn't total. YOu need to be able to compete financially to sustain a challenge long term, but we see proof almost every season of very weak teams financially having great cup runs or winning cups and not bottling every big game. Anyone can win any game, that is the thing with sports, the more money you spend, the better team you have, the more often you are in a position to win things. We have categorically underperformance for the money we spend.
160mil our wage bill is predicted to be this year, Chelsea's was 173mil last year. Spurs have been within a couple points of us spending 40-50mil less in wages, while we've(for say 7 of the last 9 seasons) been MILES behind teams only spending 10-30million more than us. Financially we are significantly closer to Utd/Chelsea spending than we are to Spurs/Everton, yet which teams do we really compete with.
As for finances again, Chelsea/Utd/Liverpool getting anything from 15-35mil a year for shirt sponsorship over the past decade or so, Arsenal signed a deal for 100mil, for shirt and stadium, for a decade.
We could and SHOULD have made a LOT more money in the past decade, it has nothing to do with the stadium and doesn't mean we weren't financially strong, we could have simply been stronger.
from
http://angryofislington.com/2013/05/21/gary-neville-arsenals-debt-is-nearly-paid-off-pardon/
We have actually less than that as it's a year ago but as of last summers transfer window we had £246mil of stadium debt, it's been repaid precisely as planned since the stadium was finished and will not be paid off till 2031. NOTHING has changed with the stadium, we haven't remotely paid it off, we aren't close to paying it off, the same payment amount goes out every year and didn't effect our spending this year, nor next, nor any of the past 10 years.
Anyone who says this simply can't count because the figure is included in Arsenal's yearly financial records and before the move the loan amount and payment schedule was known.
The stadium has never ever reduced our financial competitiveness, our woeful sponsorship deal DID however we still had way more money after the move than before.
We were spending 65mil a year in wages before the move, we spent £143mil in 11/12 and 154mil in 12/13(funny I was told how wrong I was during last season to estimate our wage bill would end up at around 155mil, in fact many people told me I was miles out and talking crap... funny how ridiculous close I got when I spent all of like 2 mins thinking to get that number). We are spending 90million more on wages alone(and other costs have also increased), yet our stadium repayments of under 15mil.... mean that 90mil extra we spend every year is somehow no better than while at Highbury? lol
http://www.arsenal.com/assets/_file...1380277138_Arsenal_Holdings_plc_-_Annual_.pdf
If anyone bothered reading they would know what utter twaddle it is that we were financially weaker from the stadium move, what complete rubbish it is that we've basically paid off the stadium, and that financial trouble has in any way been the cause of Arsenal's lack of competitiveness. Atletico Madrid literally makes those claims embarrassing. Barca/Real spending 200mil + on wages, 80-100mil on a single player, have 400-500mil turnovers..... yet Atletico are leading the table into the final game of the season with a wage bill of 65-70million, oh, going in to the champions league final as well, having beaten Chelsea, Barca and others, again with their 65-70million wage bill.
Soldato
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Yeah conveniently you appear to have left out that in those last 10 seasons Chelsea have spent £500 million (1 Emirates) more on transfers, City have spent £500 million more on transfers and Liverpool and Utd have spent £200 million (1/2 an Emirates) more each on transfers with comparable (or higher in the case of Utd) wages.drunkenmaster said:
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Caporegime
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Another DM rant? lol didn't read.
Caporegime
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ffs, the german cup is on at 7pm? I was going to tape the atletico game and watch it right after this cup game, can't tape and watch at the same time as only one cable for sky box, grrr. There are effectively 4 cup games left this year, FA cup, german cup, Atletico vs Barca(the only game near the top that can decide anything).
Thanks but, I didn't conveniently leave out anything. How much we've spent has exactly nothing to do with if our finances are stronger or weaker from the move to the stadium. The numbers are right there in the books for anyone who bothers to read them. We brought in almost exactly 50mil more every season due to the new stadium, ticket sales, food sales, executive level, our debt repayment is 20mil a year. It's REALLY simple maths, we get 50mil more, our outgoings increased(cost of debt increase) 20million, that is 30mil positive change to our income. We make at least 30mil more a year, from the start. This has improved over time as ticket prices, food prices, executive prices increase while the debt payments have not increased.
Someone stating our debt is almost gone is categorically wrong, we have aorund 240mil of debt left on the stadium. The debt will be repaid in 2031, not 2013, anyone who says we can spend more today because our debt is basically gone is delusional. Arsenal publish their accounts, the debt is on their books plain as day for people who bother.
Either way I don't care, the same argument stands as before, more spending gives you a higher chance at winning more often, it doesn't make certain you will win. Chelsea came 6th, liverpool spending loads dropped to 6-8th for a good few years. Atletico, Dortmund, again the spending difference in wages AND transfers being monumental between them and the teams they have beaten. Lower spending doesn't preclude winning or the ability to compete, it merely reduces the chance to do it consistently.
Teams who have spent more, teams who have spent about the same, and teams who have spent vastly less than Arsenal have won league titles, league cups and european cups. Money isn't everything, but Arsenal have plenty and are the highest spending, least successful team in europe. No one spends more and wins less.
Think of it this way, if Chelsea or City spent double per season than Arsenal did in the past decade(neither have), in money per cup, which team is getting better value for money? Spend 250mil a year wage + transfer and win a cup or league every 2 years, or spend 150mil a year, and win nothing at all, year after year.
Thanks but, I didn't conveniently leave out anything. How much we've spent has exactly nothing to do with if our finances are stronger or weaker from the move to the stadium. The numbers are right there in the books for anyone who bothers to read them. We brought in almost exactly 50mil more every season due to the new stadium, ticket sales, food sales, executive level, our debt repayment is 20mil a year. It's REALLY simple maths, we get 50mil more, our outgoings increased(cost of debt increase) 20million, that is 30mil positive change to our income. We make at least 30mil more a year, from the start. This has improved over time as ticket prices, food prices, executive prices increase while the debt payments have not increased.
Someone stating our debt is almost gone is categorically wrong, we have aorund 240mil of debt left on the stadium. The debt will be repaid in 2031, not 2013, anyone who says we can spend more today because our debt is basically gone is delusional. Arsenal publish their accounts, the debt is on their books plain as day for people who bother.
Either way I don't care, the same argument stands as before, more spending gives you a higher chance at winning more often, it doesn't make certain you will win. Chelsea came 6th, liverpool spending loads dropped to 6-8th for a good few years. Atletico, Dortmund, again the spending difference in wages AND transfers being monumental between them and the teams they have beaten. Lower spending doesn't preclude winning or the ability to compete, it merely reduces the chance to do it consistently.
Teams who have spent more, teams who have spent about the same, and teams who have spent vastly less than Arsenal have won league titles, league cups and european cups. Money isn't everything, but Arsenal have plenty and are the highest spending, least successful team in europe. No one spends more and wins less.
Think of it this way, if Chelsea or City spent double per season than Arsenal did in the past decade(neither have), in money per cup, which team is getting better value for money? Spend 250mil a year wage + transfer and win a cup or league every 2 years, or spend 150mil a year, and win nothing at all, year after year.
Or they just won't care I imagine.
Expecting Arsenal to win comfortably, hopefully so I can focus on Barca Atleti and it is a good game
Associate
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COYG - Are teams announced yet?
I'm a Liverpool fan and want Arsenal to win it. I've got a lot of respect for Arsene Wenger and the football he plays, and I'd like to see him get the success his approach deserves.
I'm also not sure why we'd have sour grapes. Had we finished fourth this season I'd have been perfectly happy. We've had a great season, and I don't see why we would begrudge any other team success.
Edit: Sorry, I forgot that as a football fan I'm expected to be a complete **** and despise any team who might be construed as a rival.