Family of murderer to be evicted because he lived there

Soldato
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The family of Michael Barton who was convicted of the murder of Anthony Walker have had a repossession notice served on them by their landlords the Knowsley Housing Trust. The reason? Because he was living at the address when the crime was committed.

Now although the murderer deserves everything he got and more, I just think it's wrong that the rest of the family should be punished and lose their home.

More here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/4770764.stm
 
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"Any act of crime or anti-social behaviour by a tenant or a member of their household constitutes a breach of their tenancy and will result in us seeking to repossess their home"

can't see where there's an argument. Simple terms to stick to.
 
Tried&Tested said:
"Any act of crime or anti-social behaviour by a tenant or a member of their household constitutes a breach of their tenancy and will result in us seeking to repossess their home"

can't see where there's an argument. Simple terms to stick to.

Erm, how bout the fact that the people there are innocent of committing any crime :p
 
wasc said:
Erm, how bout the fact that the people there are innocent of committing any crime :p

But that's not what is important.

The contract would apply to all members of the household, and if one breaches it, the entire contract is null and void.

The criminal was resident at that address when he committed the crime, he has therefore breached the terms of the housing contract for himself and his family.

Pretty open and shut to me.
 
Dolph said:
But that's not what is important.

The contract would apply to all members of the household, and if one breaches it, the entire contract is null and void.

The criminal was resident at that address when he committed the crime, he has therefore breached the terms of the housing contract for himself and his family.

Pretty open and shut to me.

Legally open and shut maybe... ethically it's horrifying.
 
Jumpingmedic said:
Legally open and shut maybe... ethically it's horrifying.

True but they did agree to it when they moved in. TBH i doubt they will win... legally its an open and shut case.
 
Jumpingmedic said:
Legally open and shut maybe... ethically it's horrifying.

Why? The house is provided subject to an agreement acceptable to both parties that has to be maintained and complied with.

If one party is not upholding their part of the agreement, the other can take action against them.

Should people be sheilded from the consequences of their actions or those who they are responsible for?
 
Dolph said:
Why? The house is provided subject to an agreement acceptable to both parties that has to be maintained and complied with.

If one party is not upholding their part of the agreement, the other can take action against them.

Should people be sheilded from the consequences of their actions or those who they are responsible for?

No one is responsible for this guy going out and killing someone apart from the guy himself.

Families always get screwed over for things one member did. Ian Huntley's mum had to go into hiding. There was that couple a year or so back who were killed in revenge for something their son did.

Pin the blame where it belongs, not on members of his family. I imagine the shock of having their son convicted of murder is far more than they ever deserved.

I'm not arguing the legal point here because clearly thats what the contract says and that's what will happen. I'm just saying that it is quite disgusting to make a whole family pay for something one member did.

And no I don't believe any of the family share any blame over this murder. Parents cannot be held accountable for a teenager. If their son had done this when he was 5-6 then I'd be inclined to agree that something horrible had gone wrong with the parents. But a 17 year old is fully responsible for his choices and it is unfair to try and blame the parents.
 
Jumpingmedic said:
Yeh I always sign my contracts with a view to my son commiting murder...

How is that a reasonable argument at all :confused:

"I didn't give birth to my son with the view to him commiting murder, your honour; could you please go easy on him when sentencing him?"

Not being able to predict the future doesn't mean you can get out of contracts.
 
Jumpingmedic said:
And no I don't believe any of the family share any blame over this murder. Parents cannot be held accountable for a teenager. If their son had done this when he was 5-6 then I'd be inclined to agree that something horrible had gone wrong with the parents. But a 17 year old is fully responsible for his choices and it is unfair to try and blame the parents.

But surely some blame must be apportioned to his parents, as you don't just suddenly start harbouring racist views, and it seems to me they failed to teach him that views of that kind are wrong. From what i've seen, there is no suggestion of any motive beyond racism, and in my opinion his parents have failed him by failing to teach him killing is fundamentally wrong as is racism. He was under their care when he commited this crime, so I think they must take some responsibility
 
They're not being blamed for the murder, though. They're being evicted because the terms of their tenancy mean that if one of the residents commits a crime the tenancy ends. It's not about taking responsibility, it's about honouring contracts.
 
They agreed with the term when they signed it. Why should they change their minds now.


Personally I think they should be punished for bringing Joey and Michael into this world, but thats a whole different thread.
 
robmiller said:
They're not being blamed for the murder, though. They're being evicted because the terms of their tenancy mean that if one of the residents commits a crime the tenancy ends. It's not about taking responsibility, it's about honouring contracts.

i see that, it seems an open and shut case with regards to the contract between the council and the family.

I just personally have no problem with this ethically at all.
 
BUSH said:
i see that, it seems an open and shut case with regards to the contract between the council and the family.

I just personally have no problem with this ethically at all.

If you have no problem with it legally or ethically then what sort of a problem with it do you have?
 
hmm i guess Joey barton who plays for Manchester city has no relation to his family anymore thought they be living in a mansion. :/

Good for him to be honest with his brother being a crazed physco wouldnt want to be near them.
 
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bingham67 said:
hmm i guess Joey barton who plays for Manchester city has no relation to his family anymore thought they be living in a mansion. :/

Good for him to be honest with his brother being a crazed physco wouldnt want to be near them.

I thought it was odd too. He earns thousands of pounds a week and his family live in what sounds like a council house..

I don't imagine he's bothered thats his brother is a murderer though, he's not exactly a lovely chap himself.
 
Jumpingmedic said:
No one is responsible for this guy going out and killing someone apart from the guy himself.

In a criminal sense, yes. In a contractual sense, that depends entirely what the contract that all parties agreed to states.

In the contract in question, it places joint liability on everyone living at the house if criminal activities are undertaken by one of the occupants. That's what was agreed to when they moved in.

Families always get screwed over for things one member did. Ian Huntley's mum had to go into hiding. There was that couple a year or so back who were killed in revenge for something their son did.

But this is a simple contract dispute, not someone going into hiding or being hounded. This is something that the familes involved have to accept responsibility for because that is what they agreed to do when they took that house.

pin the blame where it belongs, not on members of his family. I imagine the shock of having their son convicted of murder is far more than they ever deserved.

Most likely it probably is.

I'm not arguing the legal point here because clearly thats what the contract says and that's what will happen. I'm just saying that it is quite disgusting to make a whole family pay for something one member did.

Change the crime and see if you reconsider. If the son was an anti-social thug who spent his days stealing from neighbours houses to feed a drug habit, would you still advocate the family shouldn't be evicted? What about if their son was a one man crime wave, stealing cars for joyriding, abusing passers by, regularly committing minor assaults etc?

The clause is fairly standard in most tenancy agreements, and most tenancy agreements cover all residents.

And no I don't believe any of the family share any blame over this murder. Parents cannot be held accountable for a teenager. If their son had done this when he was 5-6 then I'd be inclined to agree that something horrible had gone wrong with the parents. But a 17 year old is fully responsible for his choices and it is unfair to try and blame the parents.

Legally, you're absolutely right. Hence why you won't see criminal charges against the parents.

However, that doesn't extend to protecting them from being pursued for breaches of contracts they have made.
 
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