Family Saloon Suggestions £18k

barmyllama

barmyllama

barmyllama

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The sensible choice is probably a BMW 3 or 5 series, Mercedes C or E class. Maybe a VAG group.

However, you see loads of those on the road and so I've been looking at the Jaguar XE and XF. I really like the look of them compared to the German equivalents. But all the reviews basically suggest you're better off in the long run with a BMW.

I've also looked at the Alfa Romeo Giulia and the Maserati Ghibli, both of which look the part, but reviews and mainly reliability are a bit off putting.

My Auto Trader search criteria are:

From 2016
Up to £18k
3.0 litre
diesel
automatic
5 seats

Diesel isn't set in stone because I'm unlikely to do anymore than 6000 miles a year in it. But equally I don't want a 5 litre V8 and teen mpg.

I wouldn't mind getting people's thoughts and suggestions. But be gentle with me, I don't venture in to this sub forum very often.
 
barmyllama said:
However, you see loads of those on the road and so I've been looking at the Jaguar XE and XF
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'I don't want a really good car because other people have it, so instead I'd like something that was sufficiently worse that nobody else bothered to buy one'

This is essentially what you are saying I think, so I'd be careful here. You're buying cars designed to sell in as high a volume as possible - they are not expensive and rare sports cars, so picking the one that sold the least will likely result in you finding out just why there are so many more BMW 5 Series than Jaguar XF on the road.
 
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[TW]Fox said:
'I don't want a really good car because other people have it, so instead I'd like something that was sufficiently worse that nobody else bothered to buy one'

This is essentially what you are saying I think, so I'd be careful here. You're buying cars designed to sell in as high a volume as possible - they are not expensive and rare sports cars, so picking the one that sold the least will likely result in you finding out just why there are so many more BMW 5 Series than Jaguar XF on the road.
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Have to agree with this.

I currently own a f11 5 series and it's been a very good car to me. I've also owned a few Mercs (e55 AMG, e63 AMG) and they are decent cars too. Not owned the jags, but have known a few people that have and they had quite a few issues, in and out of garages a lot.
 
Depending on how set you are on a 3.0 litre engine, something like the Skoda Superb L&K or Sportline might be worth a look, with a 2.0 TSI (220bhp). Whilst they're not quite the bargain options they used to be, they should still present pretty good value in terms of the equipment you get compared to more premium brands at the same budget/age/mileage.
 
[TW]Fox said:
'I don't want a really good car because other people have it, so instead I'd like something that was sufficiently worse that nobody else bothered to buy one'

This is essentially what you are saying I think, so I'd be careful here. You're buying cars designed to sell in as high a volume as possible - they are not expensive and rare sports cars, so picking the one that sold the least will likely result in you finding out just why there are so many more BMW 5 Series than Jaguar XF on the road.
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I totally get what you're saying and for the most part I agree. But is the XE or XF that much worse than a BMW, Mercedes or Audi? Depending on which customer satisfaction survey you read or believe there doesn't seem to be.

radderfire said:
Is having a 3.0 litre engine really important to you? Are you after a car with good performance?
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3.0 litre isn't set in stone at all, but yes something with a bit of get up and go.

Most of the 2.0 litre diesel German cars are probably fast enough. It's not like I currently drive anything flash or fast. (2008, 2.2 litre diesel Civic)
 
barmyllama said:
I totally get what you're saying and for the most part I agree. But is the XE or XF that much worse than a BMW, Mercedes or Audi? Depending on which customer satisfaction survey you read or believe there doesn't seem to be.
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I have no experience of the XE but I did once spend 10 days in an XF not long after they were released. At the time, I had a 2015 5 Series, so the previous version to the one introduced in 2017 which was the car the XF competed with for most of its life.

The only positive thing I could find about the car was that the 2 litre diesel engine was incredibly efficient and the gearbox was smooth and responsive (But then it is the same gearbox as you'll find in the BMW). The rest of the car was inferior - it didn't drive as nicely, the interior wasn't nice, the instrument cluster and navigation system all felt like they'd been designed by completely different people who'd not spoken to each other. It just wasn't a great experience and there wasn't much about it to recommend.

Remember, my comparison at this point was the previous 5 Series, which ended production around the time the XF began. The next 5 Series was, as you'd expected, an improvement on the previous one in almost every way making the distance between it and the XF even greater.

I could not think of not a single reason to recommend the XF over the 5 Series until the last couple of years where Jaguar really took pricing very seriously and the price of a new XF was very good and as much as £10k less than a 5 Series. It made sense at that price difference because to me the XF just felt like it was from another class.

I've never tried the original XF which I understand was actually quite good in comparison to the one it replaced, but I doubt you'll be looking at those for your budget.
 
radderfire said:
Is having a 3.0 litre engine really important to you? Are you after a car with good performance?
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It should be, because a 3 litre engine will give you 6 cylinders, which is what you need in a car the size of a 5 Series. Not so much for outright performance, but because of the relaxed way it'll deliver that performance which is what you buy a car like that for.
 
Just watched a few video reviews of the BMW 5 series and as expected, it's almost impossible for it not to be the right choice. That or a 6 series Grand Coupé or an Audi A7.
 
barmyllama said:
Just watched a few video reviews of the BMW 5 series and as expected, it's almost impossible for it not to be the right choice. That or a 6 series Grand Coupé or an Audi A7.
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Some points to remember.

The 5 Series at this money will likely be a 2017-2024 generation car. By contrast, a 6 Series will be the version based on the previous 5 Series and an A7 is simply a previous generation (2012-2018) A6 hatchback (and therefore not worth the inflated prices they seem to attract over an Audi A6).

So, really, with the possible exception of the 6 Series (because although its an older car it does have a genuinelly more luxurious and improved interior over the 5 Series on which it was based), you'll probably want to focus on a newer 5 Series. It'll be a more modern car. This might make a 3 litre one more difficult to get, but £18k really is too much to be spending on a 530d from the previous generation. I sold mine for loads less than that and it was about as perfect an example as you could hope to still find given they are getting older.

This is actually quite a difficult budget for this sort of car. Too much to spend on the older cars, not quite enough for a really great example of the newer ones...
 
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Kenai said:
Can you really get a decent example of a G30 530d (or 535d/540i I suppose) for £18k?
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No. I'd probably have to up my budget to at least £20k

[TW]Fox said:
Some points to remember.

The 5 Series at this money will likely be a 2017-2024 generation car. By contrast, a 6 Series will be the version based on the previous 5 Series and an A7 is simply a previous generation (2012-2018) A6 hatchback (and therefore not worth the inflated prices they seem to attract over an Audi A6).

So, really, with the possible exception of the 6 Series (because although its an older car it does have a genuinelly more luxurious and improved interior over the 5 Series on which it was based), you'll probably want to focus on a newer 5 Series. It'll be a more modern car. This might make a 3 litre one more difficult to get, but £18k really is too much to be spending on a 530d from the previous generation. I sold mine for loads less than that and it was about as perfect an example as you could hope to still find given they are getting older.

This is actually quite a difficult budget for this sort of car. Too much to spend on the older cars, not quite enough for a really great example of the newer ones...
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I'm probably more inclined to spend less and go for the previous generation. Although the more time I spend looking, the more indecisive I get.

And let's face it, almost anything I buy from what's been mentioned, will be a massive upgrade on a 2008 Honda Civic.
 
barmyllama said:
I'm probably more inclined to spend less and go for the previous generation.
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Well it's an excellent car, I had two of them over almost a decade and really liked them. My only concern would be things going wrong now they are getting older, but that aside it's a great car.
 
A friend is selling at 530d M-sport, 2019, 99k miles, nice spec. £18k

Me I love my Tesla Model 3 but a 5 series or E class would be nice in that price range
 
I'd go and test drive all the cars before deciding, choose yourself rather than relying on people online and ''expert" reviews. Use the latter for information but I'd try them out yourself before deciding. There might be something you really like about the Jag.
 
barmyllama said:
Diesel isn't set in stone because I'm unlikely to do anymore than 6000 miles a year in it. But equally I don't want a 5 litre V8 and teen mpg.
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I was with you until this point. 6,000 miles REALLY isn't that much, and the fuel cost difference at these sorts of miles is really pretty minimal.

Around here petrol is around £1.35 per litre, and diesel around £1.40. A modern 3.0 Diesel is probably averaging around 40 mpg (as was the case in my F11 530d, my D3 A8 3.0 TDI Quattro averages around 33, but I'll assume 40 for the comparison).
High teens is maybe inaccurate, but my S4 with a 4.2 V8 averaged 24 mpg over 18 months. So I'll use that number in my calculations over 6,000 miles. That car was from 2003, so there maybe some effeciancy savings in the last 20 years on a bigger petrol engine.

For the V8, over 6,000 miles, cost of fuel = £1534.31
For the 3.0 Diesel, 6k, 40mpg, cost of fuel = £954.68

So a £579.63 annual fuel cost difference. Now, a modern diesel is likely to require adblue, but that won't add much. Maybe £15 a year (My Caravelle takes 10L every 6,000 miles, at £1.20 - £1.50 per litre). VED will probably be the same between the two vehicles nowadays, so long as registered after 2017, which your budget should allow for. A modern diesel and petrol should both be "LEZ compliant" just now. But who knows how diesels will be handled in the future with the current hatred for that fuel. With only 6k per year, there is a chance of DPF issues, depending on how you drive these miles, and how long you keep the car. That could be a 4 figure bill on the diesel at some point during ownership.

For a roughly £550 per year fuel cost difference, I wouldn't be so worried about the difference between petrol and diesel. There may be other things to consider of course, brakes may be bigger / more expensive on a big engined petrol. Tyres are probably similar with the current trend of all cars rocking 20's. You may need a couple extral litres of oil in a service with a big V8 compared to a 6 cylinder diesel.

Now, if the petrol is more like a turbo 6 cylinder, a modern one of these will likely average close to 30 mpg, which would knock a further £300 off the fuel costs. Thinking of something like a 340i / 540i or similar. In which case, the fuel cost difference really is minimal at that point. But should drive a lot nicer than the diesel. And would cancel any oil quantity difference.

Of course, if the bulk of the mileage is at NSL on motorways, the diesel may do 10 mpg better, compared to the petrol, which might only do 3-5 mpg better, and that could skew the difference a little more. But in general, with such low miles, I wouldn't really care about petrol vs diesel. And in fact, reliability issues may push more toward the petrol at these sorts of mileage.
 
radderfire said:
Is having a 3.0 litre engine really important to you? Are you after a car with good performance?
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As Fox said - 3.0L 6 cylinder is just sooo much better in a bigger car - the way it delivers power and relative refinement, even when a diesel in this context, without the fuel guzzling of a V8. Sadly can have implications for VED and not the best for emissions but so much better driving experience than a 4 pot.
 
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